Interesting Mic controversy
- Thread starter slobbermonster
- Start date
PhilGood
Juice box hero
I kind of wondered about this. The Telefunken looks exactly the same and I would have bet they were the same internally. Looks like I might have been correct in my assumption.
I'm a poor bastard who cannot afford expensive mics 'cause I'd rather feed my wife and kids (I'm kinda funny that way) so I bought an Apex 460. It sounded good but they claim it comes with a "6072A tube. A hand selected 12AT7" and it turns out the tube was a 12AX7. Never mind that a 6072A is actually a 12A-Y-7 not an A-T-7. I put in a REAL 6072A tube and now it sounds great.
Another thing is that I bought a Nady TCM-1150 because it was $159.00 on eBay and it is EXACTLY the same mic as the Apex 460 inside and out. Same with the power supplies. Put a 6072A in that and they both sound the same. I will probably upgrade the transformers. That might settle some of the phase problems mentioned in those links.
If the guys who bought the Telefunken RFT M16 say it sounds great for $1300, then I'll be just fine with my l'il mics and say I saved $2000 on two. I didn't get a nice little wood box, though.
I'm a poor bastard who cannot afford expensive mics 'cause I'd rather feed my wife and kids (I'm kinda funny that way) so I bought an Apex 460. It sounded good but they claim it comes with a "6072A tube. A hand selected 12AT7" and it turns out the tube was a 12AX7. Never mind that a 6072A is actually a 12A-Y-7 not an A-T-7. I put in a REAL 6072A tube and now it sounds great.
Another thing is that I bought a Nady TCM-1150 because it was $159.00 on eBay and it is EXACTLY the same mic as the Apex 460 inside and out. Same with the power supplies. Put a 6072A in that and they both sound the same. I will probably upgrade the transformers. That might settle some of the phase problems mentioned in those links.
If the guys who bought the Telefunken RFT M16 say it sounds great for $1300, then I'll be just fine with my l'il mics and say I saved $2000 on two. I didn't get a nice little wood box, though.
snow lizard
Dedicated Slacker
PhilGood said:
I've been watching this one for a while now.
Every time I go into Long & McQuade and ask about microphones someone tries to sell me an Apex 460. Why settle for a custom foam padded aluminum flight case when I can buy the R-F-T and get a wooden box?
Anyway, I bought a couple of 210 ribbons instead. I'm not sure if they have all the same phase problems, but I'm not even sure what that phase graph is supposed to mean, or if mics typically vary from a test mic like that. Does anyone here know?
sl
HogansHiro
Now with 25% more sarcasm
PhilGood said:
I just ordered one from musiciansbuy.com for $229 (couldn't find it anywhere else) .....I don't mind buying a $1,400 mic at a discount of over a $1,100.
Yo Slobber!!!!
Thanx for the heads up on the great deal. Thats just more money I can save for whores!!
I'll let you guys know when I get it..should be a couple of days.
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PhilGood
Juice box hero
HogansHiro said:
I think the point is that it might not be WORTH $1,400. It could be a mic worth $200 that they slapped the Telefunken name on. If Telefunken is just trying to make a quick buck based on their name, that's a serious breach of trust. Some guys who bought the M16 like it and think its very useful. That comforts me to some extent if its the same mic.
I like my Apex just fine, but I really don't have anything to compare it to b/c I can't afford brand name high end mics. The best mics I have are ones I've built myself like the Royer modded v67 or my Sony clone. (Can't wait to tell everyone about my latest but its not finished yet.)
I read the whole link and associated thread. Personally, way too much attention was paid to the "technical" side of things. To me all that matters is how do the two mics sound. Acoording to a few people the Tele definately sounds different. If it sounds good, and is on par with other mics in it's price range, thats good enough for me. I really don't care who made it, with what parts etc... Just how it sounds
Of course, the sound is the real issue, but I don't think that's what the controversy is over. If the mic costs $100 to make, after a distributor, a retailer and a little for branding, it goes for 250, I think we're cool with that, it appeals to our sense of fairness that everyone makes a little profit for their services, etc etc. What we're not cool with is paying 1000% markup simply because the company believes the market will bear it, especially from a company so revered.xstatic said:I read the whole link and associated thread. Personally, way too much attention was paid to the "technical" side of things. To me all that matters is how do the two mics sound. Acoording to a few people the Tele definately sounds different. If it sounds good, and is on par with other mics in it's price range, thats good enough for me. I really don't care who made it, with what parts etc... Just how it sounds
Despite that, this isn't the sort of thing that's going to get people fighting or issuing lawsuits, consumers will be satisfied or dissatisfied, but there's nothing illegal happening. The smart folks will be thrilled that they can get what is supposed to be $1200 worth of product for free and rush out to spend $250, while the even smarter folks will consider whether the product is even worth that. Maybe most importantly, in the future all of us will be watching for too similar capsule design, and hopefully getting better and better sound for our hard earned dollars.
scrubs
Not of sound mind
undercat said:
Why? In a market economy, people will pay what they believe the item to be worth. If someone buys the Telefunken for $1400 and is happy with the performance at that price, there is no problem. Telefunken obviously feels justified charging this amount for their better quality control in capsule selection, different capacitors, tubes etc., US assembly, their brand name and service guarantees. I'm not saying I would buy the mic, just that I don't see a moral problem with them charging whatever they want. The market will eventually determine whether or not this pricing is warranted.
HogansHiro
Now with 25% more sarcasm
PhilGood said:
What brand of tube did you use. I have a limited selection of tubes on the island (the music stare carries fender, rayhteon...etc, the big name tubes but I've never looked for Y's just X's.)
Also, I have a buddy over in the comms squadron here on the AF Base that says they have a room full of old radio/comms gear that is tube driven. They plan on sending all the stuff to the office that sells/disposes
of that stuff. Think I might go scavenge some vintage military grade tubes if I can find any there.
PhilGood
Juice box hero
HogansHiro said:What brand of tube did you use. I have a limited selection of tubes on the island (the music stare carries fender, rayhteon...etc, the big name tubes but I've never looked for Y's just X's.)
Also, I have a buddy over in the comms squadron here on the AF Base that says they have a room full of old radio/comms gear that is tube driven. They plan on sending all the stuff to the office that sells/disposes
Hey, if you can find a JAN 12AY7/6072A your in good shape. (JAN = Joint Army Navy) The JAN tubes have to match higher specs. Otherwise GE five star is the tube from the AKG C12 (I believe). You could use any NOS tube from GE, RCA, Sylvania, Lear and Electro Harmonix is now making a 12AY7 thats getting good reviews. I'm trying those currently, although I have old Telefunkens if it turns out I don't like the EHs.
snow lizard
Dedicated Slacker
Has anyone ever tried JJ tubes in a microphone? They're supposed to be really good for guitar amps.
sl
sl
I personally am a little put off by this whole Telefunken deal, but it is what it is. If they really do make some changes to the mic though, and back it well, and bench it well, it may really be worth what they are asking. Especially since several reports do say that it sounds much different. Once again, the bottom line is how does it sound next to the other mic? If it does sound different, than it is really a decision to be made by each individual consumer as to whether or not that sound difference is worth the money. There are a lot of people out there who don't think that an ELAM 251 is worth $15000, but then there are a lot of people who would also buy them given the opportunity. It all depends on what sound you are after, and what you are willing to do to achieve it. The good news is that if there are decent cheaper versions out there, a lot of people can finally achieve and obtain some of those sought after characteristics that financially they would never otherwise be able to achieve. If they keep at it, there may come a day when the real thing is a reasonable goal for them.