instrument arrangement

[djclueveli]

What is the maximum amount of instrument that should be played at once. I read 4 instruments but in alot of songs i hear about six and the mix is still very nice. also if i have two of the same guitars playing different parts is this considered as 1 or 2 instruments. also what if two different instruments play the same note is that considered as two different isntruments? maybe i'm confusing this with elements

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

What is the maximum amount of instrument that should be played at once. I read 4 instruments but in alot of songs i hear about six and the mix is still very nice.

There is no maximum. Think of big bands or even symphony orchestras. Or groups like Chicago, Blood Sweat and Tears, Poi Dog Pondering, or the south of the equator stuff done by the likes of Paul Simon and David Byrne. The thing is, the more the instruments, the tighter the arrangement needs to be and the more deatiled the mixing.

also if i have two of the same guitars playing different parts is this considered as 1 or 2 instruments. also what if two different instruments play the same note is that considered as two different isntruments?

They're seperate instruments in both cases.

But that's far more important to the arranger than the engineer; what's more important to the engineer is not so much number of instruments as number of tracks. On the one hand, you have something like drums; one instrument, but multiple tracks. Same thing with a stereo miked guitar. On the other hand you might have multiple backup singers singing to one mic (and one track), or even an entire 6-piece band recorded in stereo to just the two stereo tracks.

G.

 

[djclueveli]

thanks glen. actually im sort of the arranger and the engineer lol. i write the music and produce it myself. but yea i was just asking this becuase i read it in "the mixing engineers handbook" and was curious but i didnt know if he was talkin about playin them all at once.

 

[chazba]

There is no easy answer for your question. It's not so much about how many instruments play at a time as it is how many notes at a time,in which octaves and by what instruments. As an arranger you have to know what you want to achieve musically and sonically. 3 saxes and a clarinet will sound like Glen Miller's band (if you dont know who he was, maybe you should check him out.
Guitar ,Bass ,Kbd and drums can sound like a lot of different groups, depending on what instrument has which note(s) If there is a lot of movement by some of the instruments you may want to simplify what's going on among the other instruments. The average untrained listener can track 3 parts at a time. A trained and experienced listener can track 8 at a time . By track I mean that they can follow the part and identify the interactions. Even symphonic conductors need scores to look at to keep up but it takes an experienced ear to be able to tell if the players are doing it right.

Sorry 'bout the rant, hope this gives you some new ideas to think about.


chazba

 

[rory]

47 .

 

[Robert D]

Good answers. This is closely related to the Higher/Lower thread, so check that out also. Keep in mind that all similar or same notes/frequencies at the same time don't always compete. Sometimes they reinforce each other. Also, sometimes tension is created in a piece intentionally. So there are no rules about how many instruments at once, or even how many in the same frequency range. It's a question of what elements work to support a given section of a piece.

 

[Robert D]

And remember, every time God masturbates, Rory has to go kill a kitten, so knock it off God, and fix some things down here instead!

CRACK!! (the sound of lightning striking me..)

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

thanks glen. actually im sort of the arranger and the engineer lol. i write the music and produce it myself. but yea i was just asking this becuase i read it in "the mixing engineers handbook" and was curious but i didnt know if he was talkin about playin them all at once.

As much as I like Owsinski and his books, I'd say that as arranger and engineer (and therefore probably pretty much producer, in the classic sense) is to not over-interpret that part f the book, at least not just yet.

Take your time and put the piece together in your head (and paper, if that'll help) as much as you can. Don't worry about things like tracks and how many instruments just yet. Just mentally compose the arrangement. What does it sound like, measure by measure? When you have at least a halfway decent idea as to how you'll want it to sound, the you can start designing the arrangement; what instruments/vocals need to be used where. Then once you have the arrangement pretty much worked out, you know what needs to be tracked and how it nees to be mixed.

G.