In memory of the banned

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Whenever a place becomes not fun for whatever reason, people will cease to participate.

I've seen it a million times where the "old guard" feels slighted by the new people coming in and acting like they have rights and such. Whereas the old timers were actually the people that built the place and created an environment that attracted the newbies.

Everyone has the same rights per forum guidelines, but often times newbies start to exercise them before ever being accepted by the established membership and without building relationships with those who have established the place.


I'm not taking sides here at all, just pointing out a phenomenon that occurs.

I have seen here in particular, a war of sorts with the newer folks and the people who have been here forever.

It's not pretty.
 
Well, I see where Lt Bob has a point and it kind of blends with yours in that, some of the newer members are younger members. Many of those younger members grew up in a time where they were never really given 'true' criticism. Everything had to be hearts and flowers and stickers because we wouldn't want to bruise their fragile ego. These kids grow up expecting everything to be fun, everything to be provided without any effort on their part, and everyone to act impressed with every turd they produce. This is why so many of them are still living with their parents when they're 28 unless their parents pay their rent. They simply don't know how to function as adults, or have any desire to.

Sorry I got off on a tangent there, but it plays into my comment.

So many of them don't understand that they can't just pug any old electric guitar into an iphone and sound like Bonamossa at Criteria. And when someone tells them that they need to go back and work some more on it on these particular points, they can't handle it emotionally that someone didn't pat them on the head and tell them what a good job they did.

There is, however, a difference between being constructive and being a dick. And, the older ones should remember that music is subjective, and a 'my way or the highway' attitude isn't very conducive to the learning environment. The teacher's idea of what constitutes a good sound is not the be all and end all. 'If it's not this tone, it sucks' is not a valid argument.

But any of the problems I've ever had with anyone were in the cave or cave light.
 
notCardio said:
Well, I see where Lt Bob has a point and it kind of blends with yours in that, some of the newer members are younger members. Many of those younger members grew up in a time where they were never really given 'true' criticism. Everything had to be hearts and flowers and stickers because we wouldn't want to bruise their fragile ego. These kids grow up expecting everything to be fun, everything to be provided without any effort on their part, and everyone to act impressed with every turd they produce. This is why so many of them are still living with their parents when they're 28 unless their parents pay their rent. They simply don't know how to function as adults, or have any desire to.

Sorry I got off on a tangent there, but it plays into my comment.

So many of them don't understand that they can't just pug any old electric guitar into an iphone and sound like Bonamossa at Criteria. And when someone tells them that they need to go back and work some more on it on these particular points, they can't handle it emotionally that someone didn't pat them on the head and tell them what a good job they did.

There is, however, a difference between being constructive and being a dick. And, the older ones should remember that music is subjective, and a 'my way or the highway' attitude isn't very conducive to the learning environment. The teacher's idea of what constitutes a good sound is not the be all and end all. 'If it's not this tone, it sucks' is not a valid argument.

But any of the problems I've ever had with anyone were in the cave or cave light.
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The key word here in your first sentence is 'some'. That is not the typical musician today. Though we do get some of them.

Generalization of a stereotype as fact is just about the same as racial profiling. It is just not true and it is those that pushed the rules and made their own choices as they saw fit that inevitably pushed the rules enough til there was no choice.

I totally agree with your statement of 'being constructive and being a dick'. Many lines were crossed on multiple levels by long term members with tons of experience. Sorry though, someone can't say that one other's music is shit just because they don't like it themselves personally. That to me is arrogant and not productive.

Anyway, I am personally done talking about what has happened in the past. It is done.

WARNING: I'm gonna talk like a member and not a mod here: I hope all just get the fuck over what happened with the bannings of a few long term members and realize that the ones complaining about the 'why/how' really have no clue as to what actually happened. I don't give a shit if you heard from one member what another member said to you personally. That is in itself childish hearsay. How old are you? - Statement not aimed at anyone directly, but ask yourself a question. Do I know all the facts? Well nobody knows all of them. But be damned sure that we mods spent countless hours making sure we discussed all aspects and worked together for the benefit of the site. And trust me, it was not easy. We do not just make decisions based on our personal opinions. We took what we were given and looked to each other to vote on what the decisions were. I wish Congress worked like we do. We actually listen to members/each other and make decisions as to how to enforce the rules of the site. And holy shit we are lenient. Anyway...

If a member feels that someone has been unjustly banned and wishes to still complain about it on forum here, you may want to take a step back and chill the fuck out. You don't see mods here criticizing and blaming individuals. Ever! Actually we truly miss some of the banned members. It isn't personal in any way. Why is that so hard for some to digest? I personally don't get why this is still something that comes up.

Shitty analogy: I remember some good times with a previous girlfriend from 18 years ago. But that went to shit. I don't bring it up to my wife and kids now though. Does not seem like it would be a productive conversation...
 
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notCardio said:
Well, I see where Lt Bob has a point and it kind of blends with yours in that, some of the newer members are younger members. Many of those younger members grew up in a time where they were never really given 'true' criticism. Everything had to be hearts and flowers and stickers because we wouldn't want to bruise their fragile ego. These kids grow up expecting everything to be fun, everything to be provided without any effort on their part, and everyone to act impressed with every turd they produce. This is why so many of them are still living with their parents when they're 28 unless their parents pay their rent. They simply don't know how to function as adults, or have any desire to.
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Great theory, but off the mark. The people who are more active on the Clinic tend to be closer to 40 than 20, and some of us are a lot older than that. Judging by the ones I know, we are people who have achieved some success in the real world and carry those values into our hobby. We tend to be disciplined, productive, and into finishing things. We can handle criticism, but the schoolyard bully routine arouses contempt.
 
banned on the run.....
banned on the run.....

The jailer man and sailor Sam will search for ever more

For the banned on the run!

I say that the banned have their own rebel website and they....right out of the gate ....banned me for commiting no infraction whatsoever.
Then the rebel forum members come in here trying to recruit members away from here and like a broken record belly ache and bitch about those old bannings.
They are lucky they are allowed to continue with this bullshit.

Which leads me to say....
Who the fuck cares about whether their banning was fair?
Fair?
You've got to be kidding me!
Are we really even pondering this asinine thought?
They aren't fair themselves with who they ban are they?
So, I say fuck 'em as far as I'm concerned

(I say that with all due respect)
:laughings:
 
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Well as I was once told when whining about fair to my Pops..."The Fair is in Pomona (LA COUNTY Fair) son....My home, my rules...done"

In regards to EXPERTS PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE! We're all hacks of different levels faking it till we make it...Even the Alan Parson's of the world are hacks...they've just hacked away at it a lot more than us so they have a better understanding ( subjective ) than most of us here at getting a good recording efficiently including those no longer among us. That includes several good people who weren't banned but just got fed up with the horseshit going on here.

The test Political threads that I have posted here (post the bannings) illustrate that we can in fact discuss "HOT" topics without it heading south of a 7th grade "blow me" burn session.
 
Jimi, I would only take issue with your characterization of them trying to recruit people 'away' from here.

I don't remember JDOD saying anyone should dump this place and not come back. I'm on a few other boards, but I'm also still here.
 
Robus said:
Great theory, but off the mark. The people who are more active on the Clinic tend to be closer to 40 than 20, and some of us are a lot older than that. Judging by the ones I know, we are people who have achieved some success in the real world and carry those values into our hobby. We tend to be disciplined, productive, and into finishing things. We can handle criticism, but the schoolyard bully routine arouses contempt.
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Well, I guess I wasn't limiting my remarks to being in relation to the Tone Thread. Perhaps that's my mistake.
 
LOL - you guys.

Herein lies the eternal problem of trying to explain stuff on the internet.:)

No-one reads everything that's written in a thread and no-one fully understands everything that they do read in a thread because some people aren't so good at reading and comprehending and some people aren't so good at writing and explaining, and so everyone involved in the discussion ends up labouring under some type of misapprehension or other and that isn't easily corrected because no-one reads everything that's written to explain the misapprehension and no-one fully understands everything that they do read in the explanation and there's no order to an internet thread and people pop in and out and some people aren't so good at reading and comprehending and some people aren't so good at writing and explaining, and so everyone trying to work out WTF was actually going on originally is now labouring under some additional misapprehension or other in trying to nut out what the first thing was about ... and round and round we go...

'twas ever thus.

Takes a while to pick through it all, but you can work it out if you have the time and the patience and can concentrate and read without getting upset every time you come across the words "Greg" and "Rami" and "butthurt" and "banned" and you actually do want to work it out.

It's possibly not beyond the capabilities of people who can wrangle with really complex things like DAWs to sort through a pile of relevant and irrelevant scribblings and work out what's up, if you can do so in a calm and rational fashion - but you'd probably rather be doing all sorts of other things because we're largely musicians here, and there are songs to be written and life to be lived and beer to be drunk and all sorts of other fun stuff to do that don't exactly aid being calm and rationale and sorting through a pile of relevant and irrelevant scribblings to work out what's up, when really, there's so much better stuff to do.

Otherwise, if you dip in and out in furious bursts of text, you'll just continue to get mad about stuff that's really quite simple when you get to its essence.

This entire thing could be explained in about 4 succinct dot points, but I'm not going to do this for you because you wouldn't believe me - and then you'd want to argue about it and talk about it and all sorts of other shit and there are songs to be written and life to be lived and beer to be drunk and other fun stuff to do and you don't really want to understand, do you, because if you had the answers to the entire thing then there'd be not so much left to talk about in Prime Time until the next celebrity dies (Keith Richards this year for sure) or TAE digs up some other unappreciated classic band from the 70s?

You're just here for the arguing! And arguing is excellent fun but you can't really do it well on an internet forum because people get angry very quickly and lack patience and can't see nuance and some people aren't so good at reading and understanding and others aren't so good at writing and elucidating and before you know it your world is closing in on you and you're annoyed because people just don't understand and you realise that you've just spent two minutes of a life better spent writing songs, and living life and drinking beer and other fun stuff reading the ramblings of someone you don't know and who seems to repeat the same thing over and over again and perhaps you should just have a nap instead. Or a cup of tea. Or a cookie.

This has been a public service announcement. :eek:

You are entirely welcome. :laughings:
 
Hahaha. You are duly elected as spokesman for the internet squabble resolution cabinet position.
:D

To me it all boils down to this. It's more fun to drink beer.
But then again, I may be one of those that just don't read or write so good. :D
I blame the beer.
 
notCardio said:
Jimi, I would only take issue with your characterization of them trying to recruit people 'away' from here.

I don't remember JDOD saying anyone should dump this place and not come back. I'm on a few other boards, but I'm also still here.
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You're 100% right. It was a mischaractorization.
But, that's beside the point.
My point was that Its pretty ironic that the very people that beat the "HR.com unfairly bans" dead horse unfairly banned me.

As far as this site not allowing harsh critical analysis of people's recordings goes....that's BS. I still see it. There is a thread up now in which someone gives a scathing review of a long term members tecording. I don't think it's necessary to be so brutal on someone...but the point is that the mods aren't micro managing that.

Maybe if someone is on their 95th last chance they may monitor it more closely... I dunno. But to say this place will not tolerate hard criticism is a false narrative that, in itself, springs from the "unfairly banned" montage.

I just can't garner much sympathy or give it much credence anymore after the way that bunch did me.
I'm tired of hearing about it at this point that's all.
 
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Dang Armistice, that bordered on panic attack inducing.

I think possibly a lot of the problems around here have arisen and revolved round the ol' "There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers".

I mean really, there are no stupid questions, unless it is a really lol @ stupid fucking question. You should probably just stfu, use the search engine to do some research, read a sticky, quit asking stupid questions, plug your pointy shit up & find out for yourself. And ferfuxache, don't get all sandy vagged and butt hurt. And I mean all that in the nicest way possible, unless you're going to cry about it. And, please, do cry about it. When the nice ends the real fun begins. Here's a prolapsed asshole for ya.

And stupid answers will not go unchallenged by those of us who have put in the time and effort to know a stupid answer when we see one. We can't have people spouting off an opinion and spreading disinformation to those who don't know any better. I might not give a shit to actually answer the same noob questions over and over again, but I can't resist calling out some troll who tried and failed. Bonus, it's kind of fun to fire full force in unison with your buds to thoroughly humiliate someone. Recording is really important stuff. You and your stupid answers? Not so much.

Honestly, there are no stupid questions, just stupid answers. So by all means, try your luck. Make my day.

/sarc.....

Things around here sometimes got kind of tense, factional. It probably seems pretty clear that i'm picking at one person in particular. But I have to say, if I had a question on practically any subject, i'd probably ask him first. The dude has various and sometimes surprising interests. And, he is a doer. There is nothing wrong with being opinionated, especially if you have experience and know what you're talking about. Usually in such cases, if you're truly secure in your own skin, it's not necessary to be a dick about it.

I kind of miss the guy :(

then again, what the hell do I know
 
Is that your final answer?

You did see that I was being sarcastic? Yeah? I don't personally advocate humiliating individuals for inconsequential reasons. In fact, i'm generally an underdog guy. ymmv
 
Mick Doobie said:
/sarc.....
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Then I missed this, if it applies to all the dumb things you said above it. It's not beyond comprehension to believe that's the exact attitude seen here sometimes. You had me going, because honestly, I've seen it before.

Apologies if my internet-speak isn't up to speed. Glad you were joking :thumbs up:
 
And stupid answers will not go unchallenged by those of us who have put in the time and effort to know a stupid answer when we see one. We can't have people spouting off an opinion and spreading disinformation to those who don't know any better. I might not give a shit to actually answer the same noob questions over and over again, but I can't resist calling out some troll who tried and failed. Bonus, it's kind of fun to fire full force in unison with your buds to thoroughly humiliate someone. Recording is really important stuff. You and your stupid answers? Not so much.
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Sarcastic or not, that sums up the attitude. Problem is, when you get a group of prolific posters with that same attitude, it will attract more of the same while driving off people who want a better atmosphere. So the problem festers and perpetuates. That was the forum when I came here. We are better off now.
 
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