In ear monitors (Shure mainly)

I

iancl

New member
I know this is a recording forum, but I know many people are sound-techs / performers, etc.

I'm interested in buying some in ear monitors, and I only really know about the Shure ones. At the moment, when I play live, I either use 12dB ear plugs with filters, or somethign like 24dB plugs, which don't have the clarity, but are often needed on very loud stages (and are also more comfortable, and since they don't have filters, are cheaper too!).

What I'd like to know, is are there any spec sheets of the Shure E2's and systems like that, which show roughly how much sound is cut out.

And peoples' views on in-ear monitoring: Is it dangerous? Should set a limit on the volume of the ear-pieces themselves so that I don't just turn them up really high when I can't hear?

Thanks,

Ian
 
I've got a pair of Etymotic ER6s. These things cut out more sound than most earplugs I've tried, so you can definitely run them quieter. The problem is that they don't have the bass or feel of a monitor wedge, so that's where the hearing damage can come in - so much of the experience on stage is the feel of the subwoofers, etc., and you just can't get that with IEMs. But pair some good isolating IEMs with a sub? That's the way to go. I play drums, and would much, MUCH prefer to use IEMs than to expose my ears to 1.) my loud drumming and 2.) the monitor that's loud enough to be heard over my loud drumming.

So, the deal? If your IEMs isolate well, they'll actually help PROTECT your hearing if you use them right. If they don't isolate (iPod headphones suck at this), they'll end up being worse for your hearing. As far as specific isolation levels... my etymotics cut out 34-36 dB of noise. They're also next to invisible when I'm wearing them (a big plus in my book). However, they fit so deeply in my ear that I can't wear them for more than 45 minutes or so without having to take them out to scratch my ear... so there may be better solutions. No clue on the isolation for the E2s - no one seems to have that info, although Shure might if you call them.

As far as limiting the volume... YES. This is where the isolation comes in. With enough isolation, you won't need to crank the earpieces up.

I like my ER6s, but they lack in bass. The E2cs are a good choice, too. For lots of good info on these things, look for "canal phones" on www.head-fi.com... or http://www.earphonesolutions.com/reandco.html (there's actually a stat for E2c reduction on there - around 29-31 dB)... etc. Lots of good info out there. Oh, and a lot of people swear by the Westone UM2s - this is what we use at my church. They're good, but personally, as a drummer, I LOVE the isolation I get with my ER6s.

PM me if you have more questions... I do a good bit of stuff with IEMs.
 
iancl said:
I know this is a recording forum, but I know many people are sound-techs / performers, etc.

I'm interested in buying some in ear monitors, and I only really know about the Shure ones. At the moment, when I play live, I either use 12dB ear plugs with filters, or somethign like 24dB plugs, which don't have the clarity, but are often needed on very loud stages (and are also more comfortable, and since they don't have filters, are cheaper too!).

What I'd like to know, is are there any spec sheets of the Shure E2's and systems like that, which show roughly how much sound is cut out.

And peoples' views on in-ear monitoring: Is it dangerous? Should set a limit on the volume of the ear-pieces themselves so that I don't just turn them up really high when I can't hear?

Thanks,

Ian
Click to expand...


Small world, I just posted a thread about this...

https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=221958

BTW, they are not dangerous. They filter out more of the damaging sounds than if you didn't have them.
 
There are three parts to your question. The first is that Shure and a number of other firms make good IEM systems with limiters to avoid ear damage for very loud sounds. Carvin also has a good lower cost system in their PM1000.

The second is what earbuds to use. I have some Shure E2s, but could not get them to fit my ears well. I later bought E3s which for me worked much better. You can mix and match based on your ears and budget. Our bass player uses earbuds from his iPod as for him they work better than the E2s or E3s.

The third part is sound isolation. This can be much better is you make custom ear molds for your earbuds and ears. That way they go in easier, always the same way, and also block out other sound much better. You can get the material on Ebay for molds for about $11. It takes about 30 minutes to make. No heat or anything like that. Kind of like play dough that hardens to rubber.

Ed
 
Ed Dixon said:
The third part is sound isolation. This can be much better is you make custom ear molds for your earbuds and ears. That way they go in easier, always the same way, and also block out other sound much better. You can get the material on Ebay for molds for about $11. It takes about 30 minutes to make. No heat or anything like that. Kind of like play dough that hardens to rubber.

Ed
Click to expand...

I just had some of these done by an audiologist to get Musicians' Earplugs. While you probably CAN do it yourself, personally, I know how careful my audiologist was to make these, so I'd be a bit wary. Ed, have you done this yourself? How do you keep the mold material from expanding to your eardrum (which is very dangerous)?
 
johnny5dm said:
I just had some of these done by an audiologist to get Musicians' Earplugs. While you probably CAN do it yourself, personally, I know how careful my audiologist was to make these, so I'd be a bit wary. Ed, have you done this yourself? How do you keep the mold material from expanding to your eardrum (which is very dangerous)?
Click to expand...

Yes.

It’s actually very easy. The material comes in two small containers, each with the consistency of play dough. When you mix the two, it begins to set up after about 2 minutes. After 15, it becomes fairly hard rubber. There is no expansion.

My original set was purchased from here:

www.podfitkit.com

For about $13 you get enough material to make one set. I later found this source on Ebay for larger quantities of the same material.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Quick-Sil-Mold-...hZ014QQcategoryZ67711QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

For $11 shipped there is enough material for at least 4-5 sets of ear buds, which allows a lot of room for tries that don’t work and ones that do.

Basic steps are:

1. Insert earbuds where they sound good
2. Mix material for one ear
3. Mold material in ear in and around earbud
4. Wait about 10 minutes
5. Pull out finished result
6. Repeat for other ear

Note that you need to start step 3 fairly quickly after mixing, as the material starts to set up fairly quickly.

The result is a custom mold for each ear that fits only one way, is easy to insert and remove, stays in when inserted, and block most other sound better than the earbuds alone.

Ed
 
Oh, ok. I thought you were making custom earplugs, not just filling in the space around an earbud. That sounds a lot safer. I just know how far they injected the expanding stuff into my ear... and I would NOT want to do that to my own ear. Eeks. Good link, though! I can definitely see some good applications for that.
 
Thanks for replies. I just got up out of bed (1am) to read about this because I forgot I made the thread (don't have notifications on!).

JoeBannon, I know they filter out the damaging sounds, but they also feed in more sound.
I'm worried that they won't lower the sound level as much as ear-plugs do, and then may drive the sound level back up higher!

Interesting about the E2's not fitting you as well as E3's. I'd have to take a gamble I guess, since I doubt a store would let me try them out first. I was really just trying to check to see if they're suitable, since shure's website doesn't seem to actually state it anywhere, and seems to imply they're designed for lifestyle type usage, and cutting down outside-world noises when you're travelling.

I'd also definitely try molding my own ear pieces, since I know getting it done professionally can be extremely expensive. Just gonna look into getting the material in Australia, otherwise I'll order from the US.

One more question though, with say the E2c's or the E3c's, when molding a custom fit mold in my ear, would that replace, or be in addition to, the flex/foam fittings included?
 
Let me start by saying I work for Shure in product development, in the earphone area.

Iancl, the idea of any passive sound-isolating earphone is that since they block out outside noise, and your music is not competing with ambient noise, you can actually turn your music down and listen at a much lower level.

The Shure PSM systems have built in limiters. Here is some information on both the full PSM systems as well as the earphones themselves.

If you have any questions I'm happy to help if I can. And to clarify, I only represent myself on this board as a recording professional/enthusiast. I'm not here to sell anything to anyone.

http://www.shure.com/ProAudio/Products/PersonalMonitorSystems/index.htm
http://www.shure.com/PersonalAudio/Products/Earphones/index.htm

http://www.shure.com/PersonalAudio/Resources/SoundIsolatingTechnology/index.htm
There is a little Sound Isolating demo on this page.
 
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