I'm thinking about going to a pro studio to master...

14yearoldkid

New member
My songs are in no way mastered... what I care most about is the songs overall level or volume...

How much do you guys think I should spend on mastering 11 songs?... They aren't in an album format so getting them to sound alike is not an issue...

Also can they fix some s's in the mastering process? sometimes the high frequencies are to harsh to the ears only when pronouncing "s's"...

Anyway my budget is from 300-400 to master these 11 songs... I know thats not a lot of money but if they could get my levels up I'd be happy...

or should i just do it myself using izotope or something like that?... HELP IDK WHAT TO DO...

I need these tracks mastered ASAP...
 
Also can they fix some s's in the mastering process? sometimes the high frequencies are to harsh to the ears only when pronouncing "s's"...

I'm just going to answer this one question, because I don't even know where to begin on the others.

This needs to be fixed in the mixing process, and coincidently enough there's a plugin/piece of rack gear designed especially to do this called, creatively enough, a "deesser." The gist is it's a frequency-dependent compression effect - sort of a multiband compressor, but focusing in on the frequency range where sibilance occurs. Some carefully-applied compression here can make the way those s's jump out go away.

Also, why do you want to have your music professionally mastered, if it's not being released as an album? Just wondering...
 
Talk to a couple of the mastering guys here on the forums...Waltz Mastering or Massive Mastering...
...I'm sure they could do something for you without you breaking the bank.
 
yeah I know what a deesser does, i only have the shitty one that comes with pro tools... But it only happens like twice in the 11 songs its no big deal... that was just an extra question...

I want them mastered because they are gonna be released on Itunes... The album will be on sale on itunes but in no way will it be sold as a physical album...

People can just buy one track if they want too... so having them sound alike like on an album isn't really a priority to me...
 
yeah I know what a deesser does, i only have the shitty one that comes with pro tools... But it only happens like twice in the 11 songs its no big deal... that was just an extra question...

The shitty one that comes with pro tools is probably good enough for the job - give it a try. ;)

If all you want to do is make your songs louder, then normalize to 0db, and then hit them with a limiter - you should be able to get another 4-5 decibels pretty transparently.
 
hey drew... you're probably right... i need to go in and tweak the settings on the deesser i guess.. =]

I thought about normalizing it like you said to 0 but i figured it would be transparent, I mean i thought i'd hear distortion...

should i just normalize the final mix stereo interleaved file? or normalized each track seperately?...

the hurry is that i want it to be on itunes ASAP! lol... and I can't until its somewhat "mastered" =]
 
hey drew... you're probably right... i need to go in and tweak the settings on the deesser i guess.. =]

I thought about normalizing it like you said to 0 but i figured it would be transparent, I mean i thought i'd hear distortion...

should i just normalize the final mix stereo interleaved file? or normalized each track seperately?...

the hurry is that i want it to be on itunes ASAP! lol... and I can't until its somewhat "mastered" =]

Well... Simply normalizing a file to 0dB, unless there's some acoustical/digital property that I'm not familiar with that I'm overlooking, shouldn't add any distortion. You're just taking something that already exists, and moving the samples such that the highest one is now at 0db, instead of wherever it was before (in practice, normalizing to -0.1dB might be a better idea just to leave yourself a tiny bit of extra room). It WILL raise your noise floor somewhat, as everything (including ambient noise and hiss) is getting boosted in volume, but assuming your tracks are decently recorded this shouldn't be a huge deal anyway. To answer your other question, I'd do this to the final mix, not each individual track.

Limiting, on the other hand, WILL introduce some distortion - effectively, what you're doing is lopping off the peaks of all your signals. This allows you to then boost the volume up a bit more (because now your peak is that much lower), but you're losing some of the transient. You can get a couple Db this way, probably, but past a point you begin to hear clipping. Most "volume maximizer" plugins are based on this principle, if I remember right - hard limiting + a volume normalization.

So really, I guess it depends on how much you want to spend. A professional mastering job (and what I'm talking about here is NOT mastering, but merely just making a track louder, closer to a commercial CD) is going to wipe the floor with anything you can do on your own with a few pro tools plugins and no prior experience, ten times out of ten. However, if your budget is $400, that means you have to sell 400 tracks on iTunes at $0.99 a piece to break even (more, probably, since iTunes gets a portion of that). So, I guess my thought would be to think long and hard about how realistic it is for you to sell 4-500 songs on iTunes. If you think you can do it, think you have some really good tunes that people will want to listen to and sound professionally recorded, and are willing to spend some time and effort promoting your music, then going pro is probably the better idea. If on the other hand you just want your tunes out there, but don't think selling 500 songs (which is a fair number) is feasible, then you might want to just try your hand at boosting the volume yourself.

I'll be tracking an album I've been working on and demoing for an embarrassingly long time shortly, and when I finish mixing it, I do plan on having it professionally mastered, and plan on setting aside a grand or two for it (or trying, haha, we'll see how things look when I get there). My reasoning is both kind of silly and a little selfish - I write instrumental guitar music, and there's just not that big a market for that. Even between all the guitar forums I run or post at (I play a seven string, which is kind of a niche field, so I'm pretty well known in the seven string internet community, and in fact my oft-delayed album is almost mythical now, sort of like our answer to Chinese Democracy :p), I don't expect to sell even 500 copies. Given CD duplication costs, that's going to make it awfully hard to break even if I spring for a decent pro mastering job, but I've been working on this a long time, and when everything's said and done I just want to hold a totally pro looking and sounding CD in my hands and say "I did that."

That sounds all romantic and shit, but I'm basically spending several grand on an ego trip, you know? :p
 
I'm very against normalization as it raises the noise floor along with the signal being normalized. There can be audible artifacts. Also, if you do end up getting it mastered, normalizing your tracks gives the Mastering engineer less to work with.

A good mastering engineer will know some tips and tricks to make the songs sound better on mp3 and other compressed formats.

The trouble is with mastering you get what you pay for. You could send it out to get mastered and the engineer might just run through a peak limiter a couple other plug-ins and send you back a louder piece of crap.
 
I'm very against normalization as it raises the noise floor along with the signal being normalized. There can be audible artifacts. Also, if you do end up getting it mastered, normalizing your tracks gives the Mastering engineer less to work with.

Aye, let me also add one note of clarification - if you DO opt to have your tracks professionally mastered, don't do a thing to them after you mix them down. Mix down your project, leaving plenty of headroom (I believe at least -6db is considered normal), and then send the wave files exactly as they are.

Zeppe - if you don't think mixes should be normalized at some point during the mastering process, what do you advocate doing instead?
 
Why do you spend the time and money on decreasing the noise in your recordings only to normalize the track and raise the noise floor? Normalizing the stereo mix is not as bad as separate tracks but I still advise against.
 
Mastering engineers use peak limiters and multi-band compression to raise levels. How do you think the did it before "normalize" was even a word in the audio dictionary.
 
Mastering engineers use peak limiters and multi-band compression to raise levels. How do you think the did it before "normalize" was even a word in the audio dictionary.

Ok, full disclaimer, I'm no mastering engineer, but on an intuitive level, that makes no sense to me.

A peak limiter or a multiband compressor, on its own, does not increase levels; rather, it decreases peaks. It makes the signal quieter in actual volume, but unchanged in perceived volume, at least as long as you're not abusing it.

If you then want to make a now-quieter signal louder, you then have to amplify it somehow, either by running it through a seperate amp or just turning up the "output" knob on the compressor/limiter. This knob is basically an added gain stage - it has to be, if it's making an existing signal louder than it was before.

So, it seems to me that if you're using a multiband compressor instead of normalizing, then you're adding a gain stage, and even the cleanest of gain stages will one be likely to add tiny amounts of added noise, and two will also amplify any noise that was present in the original signal along with all the "good stuff" you want to preserve.

Considering normalizing a wave to 0db is a digital process that doesn't rely on a gain stage, I would think if anything normalization would be potentially ever-so-slightly cleaner - you were still increasing the volume of the original noise along with the signal, but you're at least not adding anything else to it...? :confused:

Again, I'm not a mastering engineer, I'm just a hobbyist home recorder, but that doesn't seem to make much sense to me...
 
You answered your own question. The key is to subtly squash the dynamic range of different frequency bands then raise the overall level. "Output knob on the compressor". Decreasing peaks allows you to get a higher overall level before distortion. Using multi-band compressors and peak limiters allow you much more flexibility then just smashing everything to eleven. This has been done for years and is still done in premier mastering studios world wide.

My main problem with normalization is when it is used on multiple tracks. Noise is cumulative!
 
The shitty one that comes with pro tools is probably good enough for the job - give it a try. ;)

It is good enough if you know how to use it.

If all you want to do is make your songs louder, then normalize to 0db, and then hit them with a limiter - you should be able to get another 4-5 decibels pretty transparently.

should he not limit, THEN normalize as a final step?
 
You answered your own question. The key is to subtly squash the dynamic range of different frequency bands then raise the overall level. "Output knob on the compressor".

...which is adding an analog gain stage, isn't it? I think considering normalization is effectively the addition of a totally transparent digital gain stage, that ultimately (and while the difference on a really choice piece of gear is probably going to be fairly slight) that normalizing a mix after everything else has been done to it while mastering to boost it up to 0db is probably the cleanest way to go...?

I'm not asking to be a smartass, I'm really curious.
 
If that is the final stage then yes, why not. Just...

Don't normalize individual tracks. Noise is cumulative.

Don't normalize if your sending it to get mastered.
 
To me, normalization is just an automatic way of turning up the master volume. It does it in such a way that it knows exactly where to go. The signal to noise ratio is always going to be the same at this stage, no matter how loud the 2 track master is.

So, in a way Zeppe, you're right. It will turn up the noise.

However, it will also turn up the signal, and sound the same.

If somebody were to listen to the song, and it was a few dB quieter because it wasn't normalised, they'd probably turn up their speakers. Same thing isn't it?

If anything, compression and limiting is worse for noise than normalization.

Let's say you have a track, and the noise is about 30/40 dB below the average signal level, all the time. If you normalize it to 0dBFS, it will still be 30/40dB below the average signal level, all the time.

If you limit the recording and get roughly 10dB of gain reduction and then turn up your make up gain by 10dB, the noise will increase by 10dB when there is no signal.
 
Don't normalize individual tracks. Noise is cumulative.

That'd be retarded anyway, since you'd almost certainly then have to go and turn down the tracks you'd just boosted to 0dB, since if everything was that hot you'd be clipping like crazy in the master bus. :p
 
Just bringing your peaks to 0db is not mastering. That is the point your not getting.

Yes the song is louder than it was but is that all you think a mastering engineer does? A song correctly mastered will sparkle. You cannot achieve this by simply normalizing a track.

Your looking to much into that one analog gain stage of a very high quality piece of equipment.
 
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