I studied music, I lost all the passion...

J

ja_cote

New member
Hi,

I am hoping to connect with other musicians that have gone through what I am going through and can share their stories of "recovery" and give some advice that I might try.

Years ago, when I was between 18 and 22 (now 29) creating new songs flowed out of me like water flows through a river. I was raw, untrained, with just a great ear and a talent for singing songs and writing catchy tunes. Those were the good years. I was in a band and would present about 2-3 new tunes each week. I loved my hobby.

Now, at 29, I'm lucky to produce 2-3 tunes a year.

I wonder what happened...

My only theory is that I began to take music more seriously and studied certain music styles and even took some guitar lessons to accomplish what I thought I needed to accomplish, which was get formalized training in my instrument.

While I did learn more about my instrument, and got better at the technical aspects of playing, I lost something much greater...

The unscripted and unaltered by theory.

The exploration was no longer there...I was in a box.

And, I haven't come out of it yet. What happened, how can I find that "visceral place" within myself to once again create?

For what it's worth, my brother and I were very much alike. He continued to pursue writing and got a degree in composition. He creates beautiful music and relies heavily on his training, which for him only served to reinforce his talent. So, I'm not saying my theory is sound, but maybe if someone out there has had a similar loss of inspiration and has some advice for me I'd love to hear from you.


Thanks.
 
Just a stab in the dark, but..


Could it perhaps be that in learning you discovered there was more you didn't know than things you did and it simply overwhelmed you or made you think within the limatations of structure, meaning things could be "Wrong" because you had been exposed to what was "Right" and it simply wasn't as fun with "Rules"?

This kind of thing has happened to me and it became discouraging to the point where I had no thirst for playing.

(The way we each approach music is likely as personalized and different as the music we each make, so I can only kind of offer you the situation I worked through.)

I found I had to reinvent my relationship with playing and find ways to apply the things I had learned without it seeming a hopelessly daunting task or a structured exercise.

I took things back to basics with what I do and I used it till I needed something new... till I needed to reach the "Next step".

When that time came I didn't look into finding the "Next step" as learning per se, but more as what might allow the music to move forward. It wasn't easy to find what I needed, but it became somewhat easier to know what I wasn't looking for at the time.

When I "Got there" and the music moved forward I was able to look back and see i'd fallen in love with playing all over again.

You may find you need to play with someone that stimulates or challenges you to stretch to the next place, but not too far, just enough to jump start the reckless abandon out on the edge of your abilty... The "Zone" where you have to just "Go for it" and in doing so you smile and say "Hell, that was cool !"



:)
 
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Billy is smart. This issue is a complex and intensely philosophical brainFaWk ...

and Billy really puts a concise viewpoint on an incredibly deep topic forth.

Good job Billy.

I agree, with training we find out how much we - don't really know - and we spin our wheels perhaps wondering if it matters and if we are 'doing it right' ...

Playing live with others is extremely important, collaborating and simply 'twisting your gut' to make something work with others can break you out of the box and allow you to leave behind the bars that you may feel are around you ... or around everything you try to be a part of ... or both ... :p

Time ... heals ... all ... wounds.

Don't give up, not for a second and use the despair, to fuel the fire baby ...

Play songs on the computer and just jam, jam your ass off to what you like and enjoy, play with others and play what makes you FEEL GOOD. Because that is what your soul needs to find direction, to find that spark to start the fire again.

You have grown up now by the way, and maybe parts of you have matured, parts that were the young man writing fiercly are looking for a new center, and a new horizon, a new world.

Jam it out, find it.
 
Aw shucks Studioviols thanks. :)

I'm not smart or anything like that...
(And in fact I may be way off base)

BUT, I think the honesty that Ja Cote put in his post told a story we've all written at one time or another and I think it was really cool he could be so open.

You really hit on a VERY important point Studioviols in that with age (Among many other factors) there comes perspectives which subconsciously plead for creativity to be redefined and liberated.

I've had times when I had to somewhat say "Hey, who's in charge here, me or me?" and in doing so it helped me "let go" and imagine THE KIND OF SONG I wanted to write without myself holding hostage the specifics.



:)
 
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wow

All excellent replies, and I thank you all for, at the least, confirming this is a struggle many of us have shared.

I thought more about how my life has changed since those days, and that may tell a story....

When I was 21 I fathered a child...

From that day forward the most important thing in life wasn't music, wasn't world peace, wasn't ending poverty or stopping war...it wasn't any of those ideals many youthful spirits wrap themselves into for inspiration...It's easy, for example, to feel like an outcast when you're 19...It's easy to get "angry" at issues you really know nothing about but feel that "you're right"...Out of these basic, or human emotions (or hormonal!) comes great fuel for creativity.

When a child comes along, your life changes. You work, you worry, you think about tomorrow....

It wasn't world peace any more, it was peace in my own house.

It wasn't ending poverty, it was working 2 jobs to pay the bills.

It wasn't being against war, it was being against my boss!

It was, trivial...But, that's what changed in my life....And the music all but stopped.

I'll continue to think about these things and hope to read more of these GREAT thoughts on your part.

Thanks,

Jeff
 
Gee Jeff, I think you just wrote your next song as well as a song for a lot of people.

It's wonderful you realize that at 19 some colors burn brighter, but at nearly 30 all colors shine truer.

I wont bother you with saying "Get well soon."....
I'll just say "Keep up the good work."

:)
 
I feel your pain brother.. :p

At 19, I picked up a guitar and started playing. Songs flowed outta me like nobody's bidness. I didn't even have to try to write a song. If I sat down long enough with a guitar anywhere in the immediate vicinity, then I would inadvertently end up writing a song. :p

Now, almost ten years later, I'd say I'm right about where you're at. Maybe 2-3 a year... if that.

But you know what. The songs I write today are much better than what I used to write. Back then, I had so many "ideals" and so much focused emotion that it didn't even take any effort to barf a bit of that out onto a page and put some chords to it. But looking back... 80 (completed) songs later (not to mention the countless lyrical pieces and chord progressions that never got finished), I realize that only a few of the songs I wrote back then really held the test of time. If I take away all the songs that didn't really have the substance that I want to see in my songs, then the amount of songs I'm left with is pretty close to how many I write nowadays.

Since I'm more mature now, I know how to tell the difference between when I really have something to write, and when I really wish I had something to write. :p


I've actually thought that taking lessons would help me, though. And maybe it will. Who knows. Maybe it'll open doors to new styles/structures that I just don't know about right now. I think for each person it's different. Sometimes, being "schooled" in something will open your eyes to new possibilities... and other times, it will close doors because of rules and regulatory thinking.


Although, I do tend to agree with your theory about music training (in general). I grew up teaching myself everything I know about music. I haven't taken a single lesson. My wife, on the other hand, took piano lessons from the time she was a little girl. She sure can read music well, and play some complex pieces. But you take that sheet of music away from her and tell her to just play "whatever"... and she's lost. She's gotten better, with time, at just improving and playing off-the-cuff. But I never had a problem just playing "whatever"... that was just always how it worked, for me.


Anywhoo... I wouldn't feel bad that you don't write as much. I don't. I know that know, when I do come up with something, it's usually gonna be something that I'm pleased with. I'd also focus on the things in your life that inspire (or anger) you now. Back at 19, you had all kinds of inspiration (and anger)... it's not exactly hard to find that 19. :p But now, those things may be a little more difficult to focus on. Because they get more mundane, or you start to take them for granted, or you begin to accept them as "just a part of life that you have to deal with".

But if you really stop and think about what it is that drives you now, I'm sure you'll be able to come up with an impetus for some types of songs that maybe you thought you'd never write.


WATYF
 
more on this subject

Well, had another full day of thinking about it...and...well...I think I'm coming out of my coma, just a bit.

Today I started to question the lyrics I have been writing.

For the most part I've been writing positive songs about life, love and happiness...At 19, regardless of my fortunate place in this world, I still was angry about something and that's when a song would come together more easily. My love songs were about rejection, turmoil and infidelity. More my anxiety than reality, the "fear" that something like that could actually happen to me would seem to possess my mind and heart. My outlet? The pen and the guitar.

Now mature, secure in a new marriage, a great job and enough sense to know how lucky I am, the words and music no longer flow from an inner conflict, or the heart. No, now the words are cerebral. The music? A picket fence portrait of my life.

I think now I am getting closer to understanding why I am reaching for inspiration.
 
There are no rules-Have no fear-Have Fun

The advice given here so far has been right on the money. Here's my simple addition and a few words to explain why I think like this.

There are no rules - Who cares what someone thinks about what is the "right" or "correct" way to hold a guitar, compose harmony, or write lyrics? Does it sound good? Then it's both 'right' and 'correct'. I studied musical theory in college - it helped a lot to understand why people did what they did from a historical perspective, but I've never applied it once to something I've written. The teachers told me my composition was terrible - damn near failed the course - but I'm not Bach - and if Bach had an electric guitar, the dude would have rocked! (The lesson that held the most water for me was the fact that Bach wrote within the limitations of the Baroque style - but he broke EVERY rule.)

I was told you should get that thumb lined up parallel with the guitar neck. So for a year I couldn't play an 'F' chord much less a bar chord. When I finally 'cheated - the music started coming -I haven't looked back.

Have no fear - I can't prove this scientifically but I've been a teacher/mentor for many years. My personal opinion is that people don't achieve half of what they could because they're 'afraid' of something. Afraid that someone might criticize, afraid that someone might not 'like' them, or worse yet, afraid that they may not be able to live up to their own expectations of themselves. STOP IT! Or go greet people at Wal-Mart.

Have fun - I could honestly give a shit less any more about what people think about my writing and performance. Since I adopted that philosophy, I write more, get hired more and people "love" my stuff. I think it's because I'm having fun - and when other people see that, they wish they could have fun, too.

And now that I'm on my soapbox - let me share just one more thing - Many people who once-upon-a-time played an instrument and eventually became frustrated, tell me that "If I had your talent I'd still be playing." What kind of shit is that???? Music is WORK. It took me years and years of sitting alone in a room with a guitar to learn what I know. I don't have any more 'talent' than the next guy - I just put mine to work.

Scientific proof - my wife can't carry a tune in bucket. She's never had a guitar leson, she's never played any musical instrument. I showed her how to fingerpick Silent Night (melody and chords ay the same time) on the guitar. Wanna hear it? She has no 'talent' as some might say - but if I put that tune on a CD with my stuff neither you nor anyone else will be able to tell who played it. She WORKED.

OK - I feel better now - soapbox is free.
Milan
 
right and wrong

yeah i know what u all mean. when i first started playing guitar i would try to play tablature to get an idea what "real" guitar playing is

and being a beginner i would play something out of time or played different notes by accident, but being in the frame of mind that i was playing professional guitarist music i would come up with great original music without realizing it.


everytime i say im going to play great guitar, or im gonna record something cool it just sets me up for failure.

i play great when its spontaneous and i dont give a damn how or what i play . remember what the zen master said.

seek it and you'll never find it.
 
Jeff,

I'm starting to believe that in the end the honesty you set forth in your initial post may mean something greater than what you're working through at the moment.
You've truely touched upon something that many of us can not only relate to, but actually feel compelled to remark on.
The manner in which you seem to have selflessly disconnected in search of a quiet truth paints a brave bold portrait of the human frailty in each of us.

A post which can precipitate a bounty of sincere advice and compassion is a wonderful thing in itself, but a thread which might allow a nearly vicarious avenue for individual and communal creative reaffirmation is nothing short of art.

In your case the lack of something to play may have been unwittingly offset by a tremendous amount of things to share.

Don't look for it Jeff... it's already there.


:)
 
While there may be many philisophical, spiritial and even practical issues related to ja-cote's original post - the fact is if you are an artist or a brick layer, a musician or a plumber, there will be peaks and valleys - times when your are motivated (or inspired or whatever you choose to call it) and times when you are a worthless, unproductive hunk of human waste.

Having lived for over 50 years and having been a full or part time musician (and songwriter) for more than 35 years, I have been through many periods of highs and lows. There were times of inspiration and times where I could barely make myself touch an instrument. Brief momonts of musical brilliance and periods of musical mediocrity.

Some caused by outside factors and some caused by internal conflict (or internal peace). In any case I knew (and will always know) I'm a musician and as such I will have (and accept) good and bad times - which likely will be reflected in my "art".

While there have been times I felt my lack of formal musical training limited my ability to perform/write - I can't ever remember a time where an increased ability hampered me. Certainly over the years I've felt obligated to write more intelligent lyrics and use more complex chord patterns - but hopefully I was able to know when 3 chords were all that was needed. Like all writers and recording musicians - we must know when enough is enough.

I agree with the statement that many things are never accomplished or even attempted due to fear of failure - or fear of the unknown. On the other side, great things have been accomplished through perserverence.

So - ja-cote, be true to yourself and your music - accept the inspiration when it comes and when it's not there play music not to create but to console and comfort - like a true friend it will support you in the lean times and the good tmes.
 
Ja_cote, Billy, and Mikeh's posts all have hit home to the way I would have responded to your original post Ja_Cote.
Passion, Inspiration, or that "visceral place" you refer to will change many times throughout your life. The fact that you are in touch with yourself enough to express yourself here, leads me to feel as an outside observer that you will be just fine!
I too @ 45 years old with over 30 years of songwriting an performance experience have had those days, months, and even years where nothing seems to happen.
A suggestion that may help you work through, might be to take advantage of the technical training you have aquired and go back to some of those songs you wrote when you were just "playing" at it. Dust them off, even rewrite them with you new found knowledge. You may find something new in the process.
We as musicians are passionate people to begin with. It is a gift to be able to express ourselves in this way at all. Many out there do not even have the ability to do what we struggle to accomplish.
I think most of us are our own worst critics, and we do need to step back and remember that "less is more" . Just don't force the issue, and Ja... don't give up. Songwriting is a very personal issue for most of us. We are exposing our very beings to the world when we do put it out there for all to see, enjoy, or pick apart.
I know I have written several songs that I felt just needed to be written that probably not many people would even care about or ever listen too.
It has taken me this many years to be bold enough to finally put a full CD of my own stuff out on the open market.
I did not mean to go off babbling on my very first post here, but I was deeply moved by this entire thread, and the compassion of the responses that it has generated! My hats off to you Ja_cote,
 
Ham it up!

I love it...Great responses continue. I actually have been considering your suggestion, to find an old song and re-record it and maybe re-write it. It will be returning to those days, when it was simply part of me, and not an extension of the creative molecules floating (and often popping as I age) in my brain. You know what I'm getting at?

My goal is to bring the music back inward, right back where it started, in my heart. Corny, yes I can be, but very truthful.

One other practice I am trying, toward bringing the music back, is to purchase a new instrument. Maybe if I just start playing around with keyboards, my likely choice, some of that raw matter will once again surface and beomce a song...At the least, it will add another dimension to my creating music.

So, on I go into my search for the holy grail.............it.
 
Here's an idea: when you first start studying music theory, you learn basics. Your ears and what you play by feel are way beyond that. While studying, you'll start thinking it over while playing, and it will limit you, because while playing from the theory you understand, you can't even do half as much as when playing by ear.

If you keep on studying, you'll get to the point where the theory opens up MORE choices than what you know by ear, and in the end, getting familiar with these new sounds is what's it all about.

"There are no rules!" True, but I hate someone that doesn't know shit about theory say this. Theory isn't about "rules". Theory is a means to study music, not a goal. Studying theory will get you in touch with your cultural background, understand what is being played, and why it sounds the way it sounds. While getting familiar with that, you'll get more familiar with the sounds, thus expanding your musical vocabulairy. And THAT is what theory is about. Not "rules".

Get a book, do freaking boring exercises, and learn what REALLY is there to learn, how it sounds, get familiar with it. I'm learning more on all my instruments by sitting down for hours making harmony exercises (I'm a music theory student) than I learned in years of playing guitar for 4 hours a day. Just because now I have a system, and I'm not fiddling around. Music is work. You wanna get somewhere? Work towards it.
 
This is a great thread and youve gotten some powerful, thoughtful and insightful responses. Im a person with dual careers. I am a visual artist and a musician. My mother was a coluraturra with an opera company and my grandfather played trumpet with Sousa. I began on piano, then went to violin, then trumpet and finally
fell in love with percussion. I study music theory and composition and it is very helpful. It's just tools in your toolkit though. It won't make you more creative, but it will help you to communicate better so long as you don't let theory rule you.
I am very well known as an artist/illustrator and I teach on the college level and give workshops countrywide. I am classicaly trained and well known as a portrait and figure painter.
It all comes from the same place.
It's important to know the language so you can communicate, but when you're creating, you're making new language. You are using your tools to get YOUR ideas out, nt pre-establishd ideas that have already been done.
It's interesting that someone mentioned Bach before and the restricting form of Baroque music. The way that Baroque music is performed in conservatories is very restricting. But it's not supposed to be. Their written music was meant as an outline and a guide morethan a gospel as it is in classical music. Composers like Bach and his contemporaries
left some breathing room in their written compositions to allow for a certain amount of improvisation
with the addition of ornaments and figures to be added in performances. Contemporary performers play them very dry most of the time.
Feed your muse. If your study is overwhelming you. Your looking at it wrong. It should never tell you "this must be" but rather, it should always encourage you to ask: "what if?"
Remember one other very important thing. Sure, we are being creative, and yes, music is a very serious venture...but it's also supposed to be FUN!
The American painter Robert Henri wrote in his book "The Art Spirit" that "the artist going about his work should feel like the young boy whistling and skipping along with his fishing rod as he goes up the road."
 
Rimshot said:
It's interesting that someone mentioned Bach before and the restricting form of Baroque music. The way that Baroque music is performed in conservatories is very restricting. But it's not supposed to be. Their written music was meant as an outline and a guide morethan a gospel as it is in classical music. Composers like Bach and his contemporaries
left some breathing room in their written compositions to allow for a certain amount of improvisation
with the addition of ornaments and figures to be added in performances. Contemporary performers play them very dry most of the time.
Click to expand...

I come from early childhood classical training and lots of theory. Just after college I stared playing with bands, and then songwriting started just ... happening.

I felt a HUGE breath of relief in the improvisational format, but before I got there, I battled my theory, constantly looking for my theory ... to help me become an improvisationalist ... didn't work.

I finally let go of my theory completely one night at a blues bar I had been literally 'analyzing'. Yes, I would take a tape recorder and tape the artists there surepticiously, and then go home and transcribe every note in the performance ! ROFL !!!

One night, I just decided to play as simply as possible, by first identifying the key they were in ... (and it was called orally) ... and then just play the roots and the fifths and the sevenths where the might be appropriate VOILA' !

It all happened that night, and I took a ride that blew EVERYONE in the bar away. Electric viola ala' blues and everyone was in awe, because I completely let go of the theory and just basked in the flow, my ear completely took over that night.

But I do not forget that theory had something to do with it ... it helped, but it was by no means the 'transcender' that I wanted it to be.

As to Bach, I spent a wonderful three months jamming with a string quartet once a week by 'swinging' the standards for string quartet.

They did just provide a template, and you can use that any way you want ...

Same with theory, use it, don't let it abuse you.

Peace,
Pat
 
You have my sympathy, man. Allow me to present my take on the situation. Like you, I went thru a period where the songs just rolled out of me. I was a pretty good picker too, for a young guy.
I studied theory and composition for a couple of years while getting serious about the guitar, and gained a techncal grasp of my instrument and tons of repetoire, classical and jazz, that I never would have consided playig before.
These days I only write 2 or 3 songs a year and I got kinda depressed about it for a time. One night I got to listening to some of the demo's from the '60s and 70's and I realized that most of it was pure crap. Lots of teenage love songs that had intensity but no depth. I think that somewhere along the line I learned that there's more to love than just wanting to do it to your g-friend. Songs about surviving the triviality and minutia in the everyday lives of your parents, which is the deepest and truest expression of love, will not sell to a teeny-bop market, although you probably could write some really interesting music to go with it. Be of good cheer...it's called growing up... and although the "PeterPan" hot lead guitar player in us all will resist, we continue to operate in "fast-forward" mode with no "rewind" function available to us.


write-on and on and on.....chazba
 
Here's a thought about theory:

The great early theory compendiums were all written after-the-fact. Bach didn't have a theory book. The theory work that came along late in his life (Rameau) looked at what came before, and described a system that fit the author's observations. Ditto Koch when he described the sonata form 60 years later - it already EXISTED, he simply observed and explained. Kinda like economics - those guys are dismal at predicting the future, but pretty good at explaining what just happened.

It's an important distinction - the music comes first, the rationalization afterwards. So write from your muse, use theory when you need it - it's just one of the tools in your belt. I agree with Roel - theory is enabling, not restricting. It should give you more choices, not fewer.

The truth will set you free!!!:D
 
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