I Need Hookup Help!

[KiFF BluEs]

Lets say I had a hard-disk recorder (like the HD24), an analog mixer and a preamp. I read somewhere that the recorder's outs go to the mixer's inputs and the mixer's outs go to the recorder's inputs. But don't the preamp's outs have to go to the recorder's inputs? So two things are going to the recorder's inputs?? That makes no sense!!

So can someone explain to me exactly where each piece goes. For example, say "the mixers inputs go to these outputs" etc,etc. Thank you

 

[Strryder]

With that type of setup you would want to use several patch bays to make repatching things much easier.

The console should have at least 8 busses, (for example, a Mackie 32x8 bus would do the job), the 8 output busses should be going into the top back of the first 8 channels of the patchbay, where you would have the 24 inputs of the recorder plugged into the bottom inputs on the back of the patchbay, this way you'll have your 8 main output busses "nomalled" into the first 8 channels of the recorder, switching an output bus to a different recorder input is now as easy as patching a cable from one of the top front 8 channels of the patchbay to any of the bottom front 24 channels on the patchbay. (these bottom front 24 channels of this patchbay are now your recorder's inputs, you could patch external mic preamps in here, but the console should have more than enough built in preamps to get you started).

A second patchbay under the first one in your rack could then have individual channel "direct outputs" from 24 channels of the console routed into the top back row of inputs, now it's as easy as patching cables from the top front jacks on this patchbay to the bottom front jacks on the first patchbay to use the channel direct outs in conjunction with the 8 output busses, this would allow you to actually record 24 tracks at time if needed.

You could take the 24 outputs from the recorder and plug them directly into the tape return inputs on the back of the mixer.

Another patchbay could be used to have the channel inserts from the console available for outboard compressors

Another patchbay could be used to give you easy access to your compressor inputs/outputs on the front of the rack, making it easy to patch them into whatever channels need them.

Outboard multi-effect units can be simply hooked up thru the console's aux/effects send/returns, or you can use the aux/effects sends to get to the effcts units, and then return them into the extra 8 channels on a 32 channel console, this way you can EQ your effects returns in needed.

I used to have a very similar setup using an analog 16 track reel to reel and a Mackie 24x8 console, along with 10 channels of rackmount compressors, and 3 outboard multi-effects units, I needed a 20 space rack, and had at least a thousand dollars worth of recording snakes and cabling to make it all work.

That's an expensive road to head down.

 

[KiFF BluEs]

Thats a lot of patching lol. Well, I'm no where near that level yet, and I'll probably just start out with just an analog mixer and a recorder. So couldn't I just plug the 8 inputs on the mixer to the 8 outputs on the recorder, and then plug the 8 outputs on the mixer to the 8 outputs on the recorder? Could I still recorder 8 tracks like this? (Also, if I'm still not sure if I want to get the HD24 or if I want to go computer-based but still use an analog mixer. I may get a Delta 1010 and a mixer. So would it be basically the same as I mentioned above, just replace the hd-recorder with the Delta 1010?)

I didn't understand your first paragraph when you said, "switching an output bus to a different recorder input". I don't get what that means or why you need to do that.

Also, someone led me to believe the setup would be like this:

http://h1.ripway.com/vgsheets/StudioSetup03copy.jpg

However, it didn't make sense because I didn't understand how the preamp and the mixer were going to the recorder's inputs.

 

[Strryder]

I didn't understand your first paragraph when you said, "switching an output bus to a different recorder input". I don't get what that means or why you need to do that.

Your mixer will have mic preamps built into it, so external mic pre's aren't really needed unless you want them, using the mixer's built in mic preamps will require routing them to the correct recorder inputs, while my example was fairly complicated, 24 tracks IS fairly complicated..

Anyway, with that type of setup you will most likely be using the mixer as both your primary recording source, as well as for monitoring both "live" inputs, and already recorded tracks coming back from the recorder, and as you use up more and more channels on the mixer for tape monitoring you will have fewer choices as to which mixer input channels you can use as recorder inputs, so having the ability to switch selected mixer bus or direct outputs to different recorder inputs becomes needed.

 

[KiFF BluEs]

I still don't get it. Are you are saying that monitors take up mixer inputs? But monitors have their own inputs, I don't understand and I probably have it all wrong lol.

Anyways, take a look at this guys rig: http://www.recordingwebsite.com/forum/index.php?topic=1538.0

That's basically what I want to do, except I haven't decided between an HDDR (like the Alesis HD24) or PC-Based recording. He's only using one patchbay. Is that for routing the mixers preamps to the recorders inputs like you said before? If so, then that would be basically the same if I used an HD24 or a Delta 1010 or other audio interface?

 

[Strryder]

I still don't get it. Are you are saying that monitors take up mixer inputs? But monitors have their own inputs, I don't understand and I probably have it all wrong lol.

You're misunderstanding the term monitoring (listening to playback), with the word monitor (meaning speaker).

Basically, if you are recording to a recorder like the HD24 you need to route it's outputs into a mixer in order to mix them together for monitoring purposes, with that type of recorder/mixer setup each track coming back from the recorder will need it's own mixer channel to play thru so you can hear it.

If you are going to do a computer setup with a Delta 1010 and a small mixer like the Mackie 1642 VLZ Pro things get much easier, you could just hook up the 8 direct outputs from the mixer straight into the 1010, then route the 1010's 8 outputs into the line inputs on the mixer, you could even do your mixing inside the computer and only need to bring a couple of channels back out to monitor.

 

[KiFF BluEs]

Some other people said I could just do this: "The outputs on the preamp should be connected to the inputs on the recorder. The outputs on the recorder should be connected to inputs on the mixer".

So you're saying that wouldn't work?

 

[KiFF BluEs]

Also your first reply doesn't make sense to me. You say that the mixer should have two sets of outputs: direct outputs and it's 8 output busses. Is this correct? If so, whats the difference between them?

A second patchbay under the first one in your rack could then have individual channel "direct outputs" from 24 channels of the console routed into the top back row of inputs

Edit: I think you may have meant inputs instead of direct outputs for the second patchbay?? That would make more sense.

 

[Strryder]

Some other people said I could just do this: "The outputs on the preamp should be connected to the inputs on the recorder. The outputs on the recorder should be connected to inputs on the mixer".

So you're saying that wouldn't work?

No, I didn't say or even imply that the above example wouldn't work, I was talking about using the mixer's built in preamps.

If you use a separate mic preamp, it certainly can be hooked directly to the recorder, however, I haven't used an HD24 so I don't know how to set it up to pass the external preamp's signal thru to the mixer so that it can be monitored, I would assume it wouldn't be too hard.

 

[Strryder]

Also your first reply doesn't make sense to me. You say that the mixer should have two sets of outputs: direct outputs and it's 8 output busses. Is this correct? If so, whats the difference between them?


Edit: I think you may have meant inputs instead of direct outputs for the second patchbay?? That would make more sense.

I meant what I said, direct outputs for the mixer channels let you record as many tracks as you have mixer channels and recorder inputs, the output busses allow you more flexability with signal routing BEFORE leaving the mixer.

Patchbays can be a little confusing, and I'll explain why I went into that amount of detail..

I was thinking that you would be tracking full bands with a 24 track recorder, in most cases that level of recording and mixing with an analog mixer becomes somewhat complicated, it may appear simple at first, but when you consider the probable addition of around 8 to 12 or so channels worth of outboard compressors, and several outboard multi-effect processors, along with wanting some flexability in getting different sources into the recorder, patchbays eventually become needed.

 

[Strryder]

What type of recording are you planning to do..

Whole bands live in a room?

One or two instruments at a time?

 

[KiFF BluEs]

Depends. I'd probably record the live band but redo the drums and vocals. And then I'd add overdubs like solos or backup vocals, etc. I'd probably need 2 mics for vocals, 2-4 for drums, 1 for bass, 1 for guitar, 1 for piano. The HD24 has 24 channels, I'd definelty not need to record that much at the same time.

And I only see direct outputs on most mixers. But I was looking at 4-busses, I can't find pictures of the rears of 8-bus mixers (which are too expensive for me right now anyway, I'd start with a 4-bus).

Anyway, to give you a better idea of what I will be working with:

First Option:
-Alesis HD24
-Mackie 1642-VLZ Pro-16 Channel Mixer
-Two 8-channel preamps
-Compressor
-Mics, Monitors, Effects, etc etc

Second Option:
-Delta 1010
-1642-VLZ Pro-16 Channel Mixer
-Two 8-channel preamps
-Compressor
-PC running Cubase SE
-Mics, Monitors, etc etc

(Note: I plan on getting the A&H GL2200 Mixer when I have the money)

So how would you reccomend hooking up everything?

 

[KiFF BluEs]

If I wanted to use a Delta 1010 and mix out of the box, would this be correct?

Preamp Outputs 1-2 > Delta 1010 Inputs 1-2
Delta 1010 Outputs 1-6 > Mixer Inputs 1-6
Mixer Direct Outputs 3-6 > Delta 1010 Inputs 3-6
Mixer Subouts 1-2 > Delta 1010 Inputs 7-8
Mixer CR Outs > CR's Monitors
Mixer Main Outs > Live Room's Monitors

(Note: I'd use an external preamp for 1-2 channels for vocals. I'd use the mixer's preamps for the rest)

1. If that was correct, I've noticed some mixers don't have subouts, main outs or CR outs. So if there were no subouts how would I connect the mixer back to the interface for mixdown? And if there are no CR outs or Main outs where do all the monitors go?

2. How would that be different if I were to use an HD24?