i need a new mixer! step up from mackie?

S

shadowfax

New member
hello all. I currently have a mackie CR1604, and two more pres in the form of a DMP3. The mackie only has 6 XLR pres. Thus far I have been able to survive with this limitation, but only because the few bands I have tracked have not been very demanding. Anyhow, point is, I need more pres. Better pres would be nice, too. (soundcraft? VLZs?)

I still need about 16 channels, but at least ten or so have to be XLR. Also, (this may be standard on all mixers, I'm not sure...) I need direct outs on as many of the XLR channels as possible, and a couple AUX outs as well. It's going to be used almost exclusively for tracking; a bunch of pres which go into my comp, essentially.

My price range wont be much more than 1k USD, unfortunately, though I could go a little higher if it was clearly worth it. Room to grow with, so to speak, is also good. Used is an option.

Can someone recommend a logical next step, mixer wise, given these needs and constraints?

Thanks.
 
Checkout the Topaz line of Sountrac mixers.
I have a used 24/8 and provides excellent operation and quality.
 
I recently had this same problem - I had a Mackie CR1604 and was looking for a step up.

I ended up buying an Allen & Heath MixWizard 20:8:2 on eBay. A&H doesn't make them any more. It's basically designed for 8-track recording, so there are channel inserts on the 8 main channels; six aux sends (2 pre, 2 switchable, 2 post), great EQ (two overlapping sweepable mids), 8 tape sends and returns, and the returns have their own little mixer within a mixer - it's a very nice feature set, very good preamps, and was perfect for my setup. I got it for around $600. With the remaining $400, you could pick up a couple of VTB-1s and a mic or two. Or a patchbay. Or a used Mackie 1202 (for the extra pres, plus you can use them as headphone amps).

I wasn't ready to step up to a big, big board. The A&H seemed exactly right for me. I have absolutely not been disappointed.

You can find more informatin about it in the Legacy section of the Allen & Heath website.

Good luck - and keep up posted about what you decide.
 
misterque have you not seen the nubmeister's recent posts on the soundtracs topaz? well let me fill you in: I recently worked on a topaz about 2 months ago and I was greatly impressed at what a hunk of junk this thing was. I opened it up and found a plastic connector was completely fried, i.e. it crumbled in my hands. get this: they put the connector between two rectifiers which are the hottest part of the board. terrible design. yours will fail someday sooner than later. And another thing I discovered, The power supply is not a power supply, it is a transformer. The power supply is located inside the console and it uses the entire top of the mixer as a gian heatsink.
So get this: the power supply is radiating heat over all the cards inside. Your console will fail sooner than later. And get this: The power is ac! Lesson number one, never bring AC into a mixer unless there is heavy shielding in which there is not in the Topaz. And get this: there is no fuse in the entire system! Holy Canoli giovanni! Feel the part of you mixer where the power cable comes in, does it feel warm? Ouch that hurt! Sell it quick before you get burned.
 
What about a 01V?

I moved about 2 years ago from a Mackie 24-4 to a 01V. Do I regret this move?...noooooooooooooooo way!! I love my 01V.

And of course... I'd like to have the 01V96 but... cant afford it right now. The 01v96 seems to have direct outs on each channel. The 01v dont. It have only 4 outputs. But if you soundcard have an adat in/out, then you can get an adat optional card for the 01v and have 12 outputs.
 
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flatcat said:
I recently had this same problem - I had a Mackie CR1604 and was looking for a step up.

I ended up buying an Allen & Heath MixWizard 20:8:2 on eBay.
Click to expand...

A step up in what direction?

I went with a refurb on an A&H Mix Wizard 16:2 and have never regretted it. Not as versatile as the Mackie you mention but I bought it as 16 clean pres and direct outs and that nice EQ section and those 100mm sliders..... Solid stuff!
 
What are you looking for in a desk? Are you looking for a bunch of bells and whistles... 4 band EQ? Aux sends out the wazoo? ...or are you looking for something with solid mic amps, excellent sounding busses and headroom for days?

There is "form", there is "function"... in the <$1k department, you have to pick one or the other...
 
sweetnubs said:
misterque have you not seen the nubmeister's recent posts on the soundtracs topaz? well let me fill you in: I recently worked on a topaz about 2 months ago and I was greatly impressed at what a hunk of junk this thing was. I opened it up and found a plastic connector was completely fried, i.e. it crumbled in my hands. get this: they put the connector between two rectifiers which are the hottest part of the board. terrible design. yours will fail someday sooner than later. And another thing I discovered, The power supply is not a power supply, it is a transformer. The power supply is located inside the console and it uses the entire top of the mixer as a gian heatsink.
So get this: the power supply is radiating heat over all the cards inside. Your console will fail sooner than later. And get this: The power is ac! Lesson number one, never bring AC into a mixer unless there is heavy shielding in which there is not in the Topaz. And get this: there is no fuse in the entire system! Holy Canoli giovanni! Feel the part of you mixer where the power cable comes in, does it feel warm? Ouch that hurt! Sell it quick before you get burned.
Click to expand...


I bought this board based on the recomendation during a voice-chat with Harvey Gerst. I have not noticed any heat build-up and there is adequate means for heat disappation from the transformer itself.
But alas, I'm trying to save my money to eventually buy me a GHOST!!!!!:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
 
I too am looking to upgrade. I have a Bheringer 24 channel now, but would like to upgrade past mackie also so that I won't have to upgrade once again in the future. I am just saving and watching ebay for a ghost for now. I figure then I won't have to upgrade for a long time. I hope.
 
Goos strategy. I use the same one. When I buy recording equipment, I always try to buy stuff that is so good that it will the last thing I need to replace. ;)

Next stuff is eitehr a mixer or a reverb. I got the current mixer and reverb around the same time, and they are indeed the oldest part of my recording chain, so there ya go! ;)
 
drstawl said:
A step up in what direction?
Click to expand...

Sideways, kinda. :D

Actually, no, for me it's a step up. My 1604 was the original CR1604 with six mic pres too. And the A&H pres are much nicer sounding to my ear. Not as nice as my RNP, but they're nice just the same.

Already, I miss dedicated returns for the auxes - I use the stereo channels. And I think I need to rethink my patchbay a little - just a couple of little tweaks.

But the 20:8:2 seemed like a good fit for me - my recorder only allows a maximum of 8 tracks simultaneously - I wanted something better than my old Mackie, but didn't want to spring 2-3K for options I'd only rarely need (mainly I record alone, only occasionally do I record more than two tracks at once).

So for me, I now have the right amount of flexibility, the 100mm faders, the spiffy EQ, several other very nice features, made it a good solid choice for me.

You might also want to consider purchasing stand-alone pres - you can get a Sytek 4-channel for like $800 on eBay, pick up an RNP for $500, and you'd have six very good channels, two decent channels and six so-so channels, plus room to route them all.

Just a thought.
 
Thanks for the replies!

to respond to / answer a couple of you:

flatcat, thanks for pointing out allen and heath, i'll certainly consider them. I think the 16:2 is closer to what i want than the 20:8:2; i doubt i'd use all those bells and whistles for a long time, and by then i'll probably want something with more than 8 pres anyway. I'll probably get an RNP/RNC combo thingy soon, too, for my ace path.

I'm now rather wary of soundtracs...

Kryogh, digital mixer, eh? I havent looked into that area very much... it would sort of make a lot of my equipment useless, or at least superfluous, to go in that direction, i think... I'd certainly need more than 4 outs. how are the pres?

Fletcher, function, essentially. I basically need a bunch of great pres with outs on each channel, and a couple AUXs, though they're not that important. great pres are the main thing. I barely touch the EQ as it is, since the digital EQ I have is probably better anyway, and I'm not experienced enough to know what I'm going for before tracking; I just want clean signals I can mess around with. ample headroom and quality busses are good, too.
 
I'm surprised no one has suggested a Mackie 1604 VLZ-Pro.
You'd have 16 XLRs with pres....and while I've never used the old CR pres, I've been told by some fairly knowledgable folks that the VLZ-pro preamps are a substantial step-up, especially in the headroom dept.
And you can get them for about a grand brand new. I'm really happy with mine and doubt I'll be replacing it.
 
A&H is far superior in sound quality then any Mackie board, I also used to own Soudncraft 200B the newer model with semi parametric EQ. These in decent shape can be bought on Ebay for $600, but you wall have to be skillful with a soldering iron and a full recap plus grounding mod is a must in order for it to sound like a pro mixer. I now own Midas Venice 160 - I got lucky and bought a demo one for $1400 these go for about $2000. Even though my 200B sounded very good, this is miles a head of the game, not as warm, but very musical tons of headroom and the EQ is killer - I ditched all my Waves EQ plugs and use my Midas EQ only which means less latency issues. If you can wait and save up more, then Midas will be way better then any A&H or Soundcraft. Also look into Crest XR20 about $1400 as well.

Cheers
 
shadowfax said:
Fletcher, function, essentially. I basically need a bunch of great pres with outs on each channel, and a couple AUXs, though they're not that important. great pres are the main thing. I barely touch the EQ as it is, since the digital EQ I have is probably better anyway, and I'm not experienced enough to know what I'm going for before tracking; I just want clean signals I can mess around with. ample headroom and quality busses are good, too.
Click to expand...

I would consider things like 'great pre's to be in the 'form' range as opposed to 'function'. Function, to me, means a zillion busses, automation, 4 band fully parametric EQ... does everything in the world but sound decent.

There was a brother that emailed me last week with a Yamaha PM-1000 desk [16x 4... killer mic pre's if the thing is running properly] for $300- including a shipping crate. The thing is located in the Chicago area... and will probably require "direct out/insert points" to be added to fill the requirements you outlined... but the price seems right so it might be an option.

If this is something worth your consideration, email me next week and I'll pass along the dude's information to you... work it out directly with the dude and best of luck with it.
 
i took form to have a literal meaning.. that is, the physical shape of the thing; what knobs it has, essentially. and function, i took to mean 'how well the knobs do what they're supposed to do.'

anyhow, I'll email you.
 
With all due respect, I think that the lowest board that I would want to run a real studio on (live room/control room) would be a mackie 8 bus. Probably with the expansion shelf. I would probably look at older boards soundcraft and Allen and Heath, Yamaha. If you are looking at a board for a project studio then I would go for a better board with less channels.

If you want to use analog fx then look for a board with a substantial number of Aux Busses/returns.
 
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