I feel like my writing is getting better

L

Layla Nahar

New member
I've often posted here about how much I dislike what I write. I'm getting closer to where I want to be. Now I'm wondring how it looks to other people. Can you tell me how this hits you? What's weak, whats good etc.
Thanks so much



Maybe your not the best for me
your star glows so hot
Maybe you'll always be
weighing down on me
Maybe its my mind
playing those tricks again

You're so far from where I stand
And you keep climbing
You keep climbing
And I stay stuck

Maybe I'm not the best for you
and one day you'll find out
Thanks for being gentle
as I fall apart.
This time there's
no "I'll be ok"

You're so far from where I stand
And you keep climbing
You keep climbing
And I stay stuck

Everthing I never had
Everything I can't
is part of you
part of you
is better than I can ever be

You're so far from where I stand
And you keep climbing
You keep climbing
And I stay stuck

You're so far from where I stand
And you keep climbing
You keep climbing
And I stay stuck

Go on Go on go on and glow
show the world your lite
you'll forget me after tomorrow nite

You're so far from where I stand
And you keep climbing
You keep climbing
And I stay stuck
 
i like it. i can really feel what your saying. nice song. i'm glad your finding your style, i often dislike the way i write too, but i think its true to say that we each are our own worst critic,
 
That's pretty good Layla. What I like about it is the clear story, the message.

Two things you might think about. First, there's no tension / release in it, it's a one trick pony. Not to say that there have never been great songs without a twist, just that most of them have had some movement from start to end. If it were my song, I'd put in another verse, or repalce an existing one, with an "on the other hand, I've got this and you ain't" kind of thing.

Second point, just 'cos I work closely with a very good singer who has to deliver the stuff I come up with, and so have learned about what is singable, I find some of your lines hard to deliver, such as "I stay stuck". But if you're a singer songwriter you'll have accounted for that, just if you're writing for others this is an issue.

Nice lyrics though, good to see progress :) Say hi to the penguins :)
 
Thanks to both of you for responding. 27, It means a lot that you said you can feel it. I'm trying to get more immeadiacy in my writing.

And Garry, I really liked the points you made, especially about the 'is it singable?' question. I have a lot to work out in my writing process. I am still starting 'words first'. This doesn't have a tune yet, let alone chords. (I wonder, 27 if you write this way?)

It may be that as I get better at putting chord progressions together (I've just learned Failure's "The Nurse Who Loved Me" I really dig stuff like that) and thinking musically, that by the time I'm writing chords and then putting lyrics over that, a lot of things will fall into place better. I'm really looking forward to getting there. I still have so much work ahead of me!

I hope I can actually record some of my tracks (it will take me a lot of guts - I'm still nervous about it. I have so much to learn about production, how to get the sounds I want and all) and have people here listen to the real deal. Maybe in december.


ps: To which penguins should I say hi?
 
yea, i do sometimes write just the lyrics first, but whole lot of the time i end up gettting stuck with really nice lyrics that are just impossible to write a riff around. on the other hand sometimes it works out very nicely. i've recently sortof started forcing myself to get at least a melody in my head first before the lyrics, just because it seems to all fall together easier and sounds better that way. but thats just me, i'm sure lots of people always write lyrics first. another thing i do is keep a book full of just poetry, not intended to be written as songs, then when i get a good riff together if i need inspiration for the lyrics i'll go to my poetry, it seems to help.
 
a27thletter said:
another thing i do is keep a book full of just poetry, not intended to be written as songs, then when i get a good riff together if i need inspiration for the lyrics i'll go to my poetry, it seems to help.
Click to expand...

Ha! I just sent you a PM on that very topic ...
 
Hi Layla. Glad you are feeling better about your writing. The more you do it the better you get at it!!!

I don't critique lyrics alone typically. For me it's easier to judge a song (lyric & melody) than just a lyric alone. They work hand in hand and if done right the creation is greater than the sum of the parts.

First, I agree 100% with what Gary said. It does seem to be saying the same thing over and over again.

That said I took a quick look at the lyric. (quick being the key word here). I am curious, what is the title of this lyric? I see it is a Verse/Chorus form. Generally I would expect the title to be in a power position. In this form that is typically (not always) in the first or last line of the chorus (or both). That would make the title "So far from where I stand" or "I stay stuck". I think the first is better, although the second has nice alliteration, but may be sort of hard to sing (as Gary mentioned) depending on how it is phrased. And that's really my first issue. By the time I read through the first chorus I really ought to know what the title of the song should be.

Keeping that in mind, I would like to see more focus in the lyric to support the main premise. I think your premise is something along the lines of... A girl questions a relationship as her significant other achieves some sort of success which pulls them further and further apart. Close? I would like to see the first verse set this up more strongly. I want to feel, smell, hear, see, experience this growing distance some how. Also, the last line of each verse should flow seamlessly into the chorus & point right at it. The last line should gain momentum and push right into the chorus. You should be able to add a conjunction word between the last line of the verse and first line of the chorus (ex. so, like, because, and, but) and have it make sense. Yours kind of do, but I could see the lyric build a lot stronger into the verse.

I'm not a rhyme nazi, but I would like to see the rhyme scheme a little more formalized. I'm having trouble as I read through quickly getting the meter & feel (that's why I don't typically critique lyrics only). I'm also not a syllable counter. You can do a lot with stretching syllables in the melody. But, nonetheless, the rhyme scheme you sort of have in V1 does not match V2. Any sort of expectations set by the listener in V1 could be squashed in V2. That's usually not good as the listener may lose interest.

Well those are a few things that struck me as I read through. I am not thoroughly familiar with your work so I can't say if this is an improvement or not, and really that's your call anyway. The only way to get better at anything is to practice & study. I am doing the same thing. If you feel you are improving, then you likely are. Especially since you have such a good and seamingly realistic attitude about it. Keep on writing & pushing yourself.

PS

Just so you know, a lot of hit writers are not what you would call prodigies where they are just naturally churning out hit song after hit song. There are some...but it's still rare. Even here in Nashville (so I've been told by someone much more informed than I). Most of the hit writers work their butts off studying craft and writing and writing and writing..., networking, co-writing, getting feedback, more writing... Then after that the rewrite their songs. Demo them and perhaps rewrite & redemo. They mostly aren't writing geniouses. They are mostly hard working, open minded people with a dream & drive. They are also often happy to help up and comers if they see some talent & a good attitude. So...keep on practicing as I also intend to do and keep up the good attitude!!! It will pay off in the end..

All, my unexpert opinion.
 
[what is the title of this lyric? ]

I would say its "You keep climbing"

[I would like to see the first verse set this up more strongly. I want to feel, smell, hear, see, experience this growing distance some how.]

THAT is exactly what I am after. I can't tell you how important it is for me to be able to do that. That's part of the reason the structure here is so haphzard. I tend to write stuff that is pretty and clever, and never gets real. I have a good ear for rhymes and for simple language that flows. For *me* its part of what makes me a bad writer. Especially the rhyming. I'm writing, and a rhyme pops into my head, and all of a sudden I'm not writing what I really want to write. I'm writing what my head wants me to write. (Dunno if that makes sense)


[Especially since you have such a good and seamingly realistic attitude about it. Keep on writing & pushing yourself.]

Thanks ever so much for taking so much time and energy to give me feedback, & for the encouragement!

Layla

ps This is an example of my rhyming stuff. The first has a kind of slow latin feel. I tried writing some verses, but feh, I don't think this chorus is that good. it is kinda cute & pretty

Em F#-7 G#-7
Never known, never shown, sometimes your
A-7, A-7, G#-7, G-7
love is hazy and

I don't mind what I can't find
hidden things won't make me crazy

**heres more pablum

In the evening when stars come out to greet you
in the evening when
in the evening that's when I'll meet you
look for me again.

I'll be there, you know where
look for me, I'll be there I'll be there

There's a secret I have been keeping
That I'd like to tell
I can whisper it while you are sleeping
But you know it well

I'll be there etc I think I wrote a 3rd verse

The melody was really pretty, the chords were pretty. The words are pretty and they fall right into place. Maybe some people might like it. perhaps you can see why I got discouraged with my writing.
 
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Layla Nahar said:
[what is the title of this lyric? ]

I would say its "You keep climbing"
Click to expand...

Now see…I wouldn’t have gotten that from your lyric. I would MAYBE try to put that in your one of the power positions in the chorus. That’s not a hard & fast rule, but it is true 99%+ of the time. And for a reason. That is what you want the listener to remember when they go to the record store and ask the clerk about this song that is running through their head ;). However, there are some great songs that don’t follow that “rule” (I can’t think of any off the top of my head). If you leave your “hook” in that position the music & melody better set it off to be memorable. It can work. Especially since it’s repeated. See, now that you told me that, it gives me whole different slant on the song.

Layla Nahar said:
[I would like to see the first verse set this up more strongly. I want to feel, smell, hear, see, experience this growing distance some how.]

THAT is exactly what I am after. I can't tell you how important it is for me to be able to do that. That's part of the reason the structure here is so haphzard. I tend to write stuff that is pretty and clever, and never gets real. I have a good ear for rhymes and for simple language that flows. For *me* its part of what makes me a bad writer. Especially the rhyming. I'm writing, and a rhyme pops into my head, and all of a sudden I'm not writing what I really want to write. I'm writing what my head wants me to write. (Dunno if that makes sense)
Click to expand...

So how can we get this visualized? Hmmm…if your hook is “You keep climbing” how can you set that up in the first verse to have a big impact? Maybe in the first verse (I’m being simplistic here and tossing out concepts, not trying to rewrite your song for you) there can be some things like…

You’re up there so high. I’m stuck here below (a contrast)
You heading for the summit, I’m in the foot hills (another contrast)
You’re climbing so fast and I can’t keep up
But I don’t want to hold you down… (and here we go into the chorus with the hook being the first line which is the ultimate power spot.)

Keep climbing….

Like I said, this isn’t meant to be a specific rewrite just some concepts of what I’m talking about. I slapped that together as fast as I could write (and it shows LOL). But I think the concept is good. Actually pretty cool. It’s like a love song…I love you so much that I’m letting you fly. You know.


Layla Nahar said:
[Especially since you have such a good and seamingly realistic attitude about it. Keep on writing & pushing yourself.]

Thanks ever so much for taking so much time and energy to give me feedback, & for the encouragement!

Layla
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Not a problem. You caught me on a good day when I was sick of work and started sluffing a bit LOL…

Layla Nahar said:
ps This is an example of my rhyming stuff. The first has a kind of slow latin feel. I tried writing some verses, but feh, I don't think this chorus is that good. it is kinda cute & pretty

Em F#-7 G#-7
Never known, never shown, sometimes your
A-7, A-7, G#-7, G-7
love is hazy and

I don't mind what I can't find
hidden things won't make me crazy
Click to expand...

I don’t think that is bad at all. Inner rhymes, alliteration in the first line. It’s got some things going on. The hazy/crazy rhyme isn’t bad. It sort of depends on what you are going to do with the rest of the song. Those two words might be the right ones to tie something into later.

Layla Nahar said:
**heres more pablum

In the evening when stars come out to greet you
in the evening when
in the evening that's when I'll meet you
look for me again.

I'll be there, you know where
look for me, I'll be there I'll be there

There's a secret I have been keeping
That I'd like to tell
I can whisper it while you are sleeping
But you know it well

I'll be there etc I think I wrote a 3rd verse

The melody was really pretty, the chords were pretty. The words are pretty and they fall right into place. Maybe some people might like it. perhaps you can see why I got discouraged with my writing.
Click to expand...

The biggest issue I see with this is not the rhymes. It’s just that it doesn’t take me anywhere. It’s all so general. I don’t know where he should look for you…and you’re not letting me in on your little secret LOL.

Anyway you are obviously on your way. You mentioned that you were really unhappy with what you were writing. I find, in my experience that I feel that way BAD when I am in a songwriting growth spurt. For me that comes from having my listening chops mature faster than my writing chops. In other words I hear & KNOW what is good/great, but I’m still struggling to achieve that level in my own mind. Sometimes you reach that little plateau for awhile where everything is in sync and BANG another growth spurt and a season of discomfort. I don’t think it ever really ends. But maybe the seasons get shorter down the line. I hope so, I’m in one now I think ;) :D

Good luck!!!
 
i guess i willl be saying what everyone else has said but i REALLY like this song, i would love to hear it once its finished. there is nothing like finishing a song and likeing the final product!
 
Layla,

If I can throw in a little somthing late in the discussion:
With the story progressing as it goes, the most powerful thing you could do for the ending is to turn the table somehow. You have described how he is doing well/climbing/leaving you behind.

At its best, in the very last line (and this may take some tweaking of the rest of the lyrics) if you can put in one line that suddenly changes the above to 'her' advantage, then you have something with a real kick. Suddenly the 'left behind' part is seen as the advantage. As in 'you're going places, places I wouldn't want to see'

Just an idea,

Best,

CC
 
JaQsonA1 said:
i guess i willl be saying what everyone else has said but i REALLY like this song, i would love to hear it once its finished. there is nothing like finishing a song and likeing the final product!
Click to expand...

Really?? Wow - thank you soo much. I was gonna consider it just an excercise and move on, but I'll try to finish it and record it. I'll do my best to bring it to life.


Hi Cosmic,

As far as the twist is concerened, there is no twist for this song. I have put twists in other songs, but what I want here... this is a person who is looking at the abyss and they might not make it. I'm trying to mine that one feeling.

Everybody has been so great with thier feedback. Thanks again so much
 
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