i aint afraid to pay!!! Where the salesman at?

[gullyjewelz]

Hip Hop music is my number 1 love. I wake up thinking about it. I go to sleep thinking about it. I dream it. Its on my plate for breakfast, lunch, dinner. Hell, I think about what song to perform on stage even when I'm . . "gittin sum" lol . . its funny but its a shame too!!!!

I am looking for online and offline marketing/salesmen. People who are just as passionate about selling as I am about creating. I am not a salesmen but I recognize NOTHING SELLS ITSELF!

I recognize the worst song in the world can go platinum, if marketed right. The best song in the world can't earn a penny if no one ever knows it's available.

So recognizing that selling is an art and a science unto itself, I am looking for a promoter/marketer . .. a salesman who really believes in his or her ability to sell!

It doesn't matter where you live as you can market, promote, sell online or offline in your own area. Hip Hop is EVERYWHERE. Your pay would be via paypal (the prefered method) and I am willing to negotiate how much . .I'm thinking 20% of whatever you sell. But if that's not enough. . . let's talk!

 

[stevieb]

I imagine this might not be what you are really trying to say, but with a little creative editing, one ends up with:

...I recognize the worst song in the world can go platinum, if marketed right...This is why I am looking for a...a salesman who really believes in his or her ability to sell!

Seriously, I wish you luck, and I don't think that is exactly what you meant. I think you have a lot of spirit, but I also suspect you may be going about it the wrong way.

 

[gullyjewelz]

lol - well i certainly intend to make it seem as if I think my music is the "worse" in the world . . .
but what would be the "right" way . . .

 

[Greg_L]

I look at it like this:

As long as contrived shitfucks like Gaga and Bieber sell records, I don't have a chance, and I'm more than okay with that. The general public is stupid, and if they don't like my music I must be doing something right.

 

[gullyjewelz]

I understand your sentiment entirely. But I am more interested in selling some type of what you would call "dumb shit" to the buyers . .
Not, in any way saying that that is how I feel about my music or even Biebers or Gagas . . but . . . no matter what one person's opinion of any object is . . there are others . . I am in pursuit of those who have shown a willingness to purchase . . I want my product in their hands (and consequently, their dollar in my pocket)

 

[Greg_L]

I understand your sentiment entirely. But I am more interested in selling some type of what you would call "dumb shit" to the buyers . .
Not, in any way saying that that is how I feel about my music or even Biebers or Gagas . . but . . . no matter what one person's opinion of any object is . . there are others . . I am in pursuit of those who have shown a willingness to purchase . . I want my product in their hands (and consequently, their dollar in my pocket)

Fair enough. The dollar speaks loudly. Are you making "dumb shit" strictly for sales, or is your "dumb shit" honest and genuine? There's a big difference. It basically boils down to these 4 scenarios:

1) You're happy with your music + consumers like it and will buy it = the ideal
2) You're happy with your music + no one else likes it = artistic integrity
3) You make music to appease masses + consumers like it and buy it = sell out
4) You make music to appease masses + no one else likes it = epic failure

Which one do you plan to be?

 

[stealth_prod]

You know gully I actually applaud that you're willing to admit you're not a salesman. To many artists out there try to do both and most fail.

I do agree with Gregs options though. I see far to many people just making the music they hear on the radio because people seem to like it. The way I look at it is like this, if you are selling a product, the product should speak for you. If you sell someone a broken product, pretty sure they will just throw it away.

The point of trying to sell something, is the product is quality and should speak for itself. If you have to pitch something to someone for more then 30 seconds after hearing your music, then the music did not speak loud enough.

I like your mentality on this game though and I see you are out there enough. What are you trying to sell exactly? Is this just a marketing/promo thing?

 

[ncmail]

Fair enough. The dollar speaks loudly. Are you making "dumb shit" strictly for sales, or is your "dumb shit" honest and genuine? There's a big difference. It basically boils down to these 4 scenarios:

1) You're happy with your music + consumers like it and will buy it = the ideal
2) You're happy with your music + no one else likes it = artistic integrity
3) You make music to appease masses + consumers like it and buy it = sell out
4) You make music to appease masses + no one else likes it = epic failure

Which one do you plan to be?

A genius statement. I have read alot of your posts and you are very intelligent on ALOT of topics. Sorry now back to the topic haha.

IMO the music you write should be what YOU feel and what YOU want...I have never seen any point in making music that you're not completely satisfied with simply to please an audience. To me making music has always been about expressing myself and enjoying what I do. And if alot of people happen to like the same views I do and are willing to pay for it thats awesome, but not my goal by any means.

 

[Mindset]

A genius statement. I have read alot of your posts and you are very intelligent on ALOT of topics. Sorry now back to the topic haha.

IMO the music you write should be what YOU feel and what YOU want...I have never seen any point in making music that you're not completely satisfied with simply to please an audience. To me making music has always been about expressing myself and enjoying what I do. And if alot of people happen to like the same views I do and are willing to pay for it thats awesome, but not my goal by any means.

To add to this, find the balance between making music for yourself, and making music for listeners to enjoy. Some may argue, but at the end of the day, we're doing this for everyone else. Music to change someone's mood. Whether it be by relating with your life, or the other. Back to the topic... Personally I don't see myself going out and making sales, though I am great at promotions lol. I do have a little team running about Dallas as you know that does that type of work for me. There are also other methods for manpower. IE Interns lol I'll get back to this though. Phone call coming in

 

[Greg_L]

To add to this, find the balance between making music for yourself, and making music for listeners to enjoy. Some may argue, but at the end of the day, we're doing this for everyone else.

I totally disagree. As for me, I make music that I want to play and hear. For example, a lot of people on this site try to pigeonhole me as a dumb punk rocker playing nothing but powerchords and fast drums, blah blah blah, but the simple truth is that I just do whatever it is I want to do. I genuinely couldn't care less if anyone else likes it. If someone does like it, then great, but I don't hang any self-worth on who likes or buys my music.

 

[gullyjewelz]

Fair enough. The dollar speaks loudly. Are you making "dumb shit" strictly for sales, or is your "dumb shit" honest and genuine? There's a big difference. It basically boils down to these 4 scenarios:

1) You're happy with your music + consumers like it and will buy it = the ideal
2) You're happy with your music + no one else likes it = artistic integrity
3) You make music to appease masses + consumers like it and buy it = sell out
4) You make music to appease masses + no one else likes it = epic failure

Which one do you plan to be?

I plan to be 1)
I have no problems if I ended up at slot #3 (although, I don't set out to make music simply in a narrow minded focus of trying to appease masses)
Honestly, #2 is where I think I am currently seated. But I want to make that change. But my goal is not really to be at, #3 for instance, so that I can drive a bentley and be on the tv everyday. I like the "less-than-mass" appeal of regional artists who have a large enough following to stay true to their self and maintain a decent earned living from music. Hope that makes sense . .

 

[Greg_L]

I plan to be 1)
I have no problems if I ended up at slot #3 (although, I don't set out to make music simply in a narrow minded focus of trying to appease masses)
Honestly, #2 is where I think I am currently seated. But I want to make that change. But my goal is not really to be at, #3 for instance, so that I can drive a bentley and be on the tv everyday. I like the "less-than-mass" appeal of regional artists who have a large enough following to stay true to their self and maintain a decent earned living from music. Hope that makes sense . .

Makes perfect sense. You want to be between 1 and 2. That's a good place to be. Although that category is usually the playground for people that make their living playing live A LOT. It's a catch-22 right now....for rock music anyway. For us, you have to be a cover/tribute band to make money. Original material bands don't make jack shit. You can't fill a club if they don't know you, and they won't know you unless you play. And getting good gigs is hard with so many shitty bands out there. All of the power is in the hands of the club owners/promoters. You don't wanna accept their terms? No problem, with one phone call they can have another band there in 15 minutes that will accept their bullshit. They don't wanna pay you the agreed amount? They don't have to. You don't like it? Fuck off and don't come back. That's the rock scene. I laugh at bands for even trying. For us, if you can't stomach playing live for the simple joy of it and accept that you'll never make money with it, then you're in for a frustrating ride.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Makes perfect sense. You want to be between 1 and 2. That's a good place to be. Although that category is usually the playground for people that make their living playing live A LOT. It's a catch-22 right now....for rock music anyway. For us, you have to be a cover/tribute band to make money. Original material bands don't make jack shit. You can't fill a club if they don't know you, and they won't know you unless you play. And getting good gigs is hard with so many shitty bands out there. All of the power is in the hands of the club owners/promoters. You don't wanna accept their terms? No problem, with one phone call they can have another band there in 15 minutes that will accept their bullshit. They don't wanna pay you the agreed amount? They don't have to. You don't like it? Fuck off and don't come back. That's the rock scene. I laugh at bands for even trying. For us, if you can't stomach playing live for the simple joy of it and accept that you'll never make money with it, then you're in for a frustrating ride.

^^^^^this^^^^^^

As most everyone around here knows, I do the live thing for a living and have done so for over 40 years. Now is the worst time I've ever seen for a musician to earn a living at it.
I manage to do so but everything the gerg says up here is way true. I always get paid the agreed amount but otherwise he has it exactly right.
The one single reason I'm happy is that I do LOVE playing live for the joy of it so I don't get an attitude about the other aspects of it.

But just last night I picked up a new Thursday gig in Orlando and I can already see the drummer, an old black dude, is one of those guys that's bitter about the music scene.
he was griping and complaining all night long about the club, the owners, the audience not seeing our skillz blah blah blah.
I see it ALL the time. Guys that are bitter and angry about their careers and what has happened to the music biz.
That's stupid ......... if it's not fun what's the point?

It's in my blood and I'll never do anything else but seriously ....... do it for the love of it first and foremost and then if you DO manage to make some jack then you're doubly lucky.

 

[Greg_L]

^^^^^this^^^^^^

As most everyone around here knows, I do the live thing for a living and have done so for over 40 years. Now is the worst time I've ever seen for a musician to earn a living at it.
I manage to do so but everything the gerg says up here is way true. I always get paid the agreed amount but otherwise he has it exactly right.
The one single reason I'm happy is that I do LOVE playing live for the joy of it so I don't get an attitude about the other aspects of it.

But just last night I picked up a new Thursday gig in Orlando and I can already see the drummer, an old black dude, is one of those guys that's bitter about the music scene.
he was griping and complaining all night long about the club, the owners, the audience not seeing our skillz blah blah blah.
I see it ALL the time. Guys that are bitter and angry about their careers and what has happened to the music biz.
That's stupid ......... if it's not fun what's the point?

It's in my blood and I'll never do anything else but seriously ....... do it for the love of it first and foremost and then if you DO manage to make some jack then you're doubly lucky.

Right. You play covers though. That's why you can make a living at it, and there's nothing at all wrong with that. You wouldn't be playing every night doing only originals though. You'd be a broke shmoe like the rest of us.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Right. You play covers though. That's why you can make a living at it, and there's nothing at all wrong with that. You wouldn't be playing every night doing only originals though. You'd be a broke shmoe like the rest of us.

no shit. One thing that I do though, I play covers the way I WANT to play them with lots of improvisation and any other changes I want to do so that it stays fresh for me.
But you're exactly right ........ all the local bands I see doing originals make beer money and that's about it.
And ya' know, THAT'S ok too if it makes you happy. I way respect players that'll insist on doing their own thing no matter what.
I'm a sell out though ........ I have to make more money than that.

 

[Greg_L]

no shit. One thing that I do though, I play covers the way I WANT to play them with lots of improvisation and any other changes I want to do so that it stays fresh for me.
But you're exactly right ........ all the local bands I see doing originals make beer money and that's about it.

I wouldn't mind being in a cover band that did things differently. Like a surf/rockabilly band doing metal songs or something. That would be fun.

 

[gullyjewelz]

All of the power is in the hands of the club owners/promoters. You don't wanna accept their terms? No problem, with one phone call they can have another band there in 15 minutes that will accept their bullshit. They don't wanna pay you the agreed amount? They don't have to. You don't like it? Fuck off and don't come back. That's the rock scene. I laugh at bands for even trying. For us, if you can't stomach playing live for the simple joy of it and accept that you'll never make money with it, then you're in for a frustrating ride.

pretty much the same with hip hop . . at least in my area . . the only hope is that when we do perform on stage at te few places thats open . . that we can "win" over the other artists that are in the club waiting for their turn to get on stage.

which really just runs me back to the original question i posted. b.c when performing at a venue where the majority of those in attendace are "fans" of your style of music but more importantly artists and groups trying to do the same thing as you . . get a buzz and find fans of YOU yourself . .. its kind of beatin one;s head up against a brick wall.

 

[Mindset]

I totally disagree. As for me, I make music that I want to play and hear. For example, a lot of people on this site try to pigeonhole me as a dumb punk rocker playing nothing but powerchords and fast drums, blah blah blah, but the simple truth is that I just do whatever it is I want to do. I genuinely couldn't care less if anyone else likes it. If someone does like it, then great, but I don't hang any self-worth on who likes or buys my music.

If I made music for only myself to enjoy, I would be out of a business & then this would become just no more than a hobby. Which is the harsh reality of things.
I feel you with the punk rocker ideal because its the same way with hip hop lol. Though everythings only opinions, at the end of the day ppl don't buy music because you like it, they buy it because they like it. There will always be a boundry between the guys who are in it for the $$, and the people who are in it for the art. However, statistics show talent isn't always the key. 10% talent 90% business, the fundamentals of the music business. Some spell out Sell Out, some call it the art of business. But if you want to make money at this, you HAVE to consider the listeners. Im not saying don't make music for yourself to enjoy as well, but absolutely never ever cut out the clients that line your pockets if thats what your aiming for.

 

[grimtraveller]

at the end of the day ppl don't buy music because you like it, they buy it because they like it. But if you want to make money at this, you HAVE to consider the listeners. Im not saying don't make music for yourself to enjoy as well, but absolutely never ever cut out the clients that line your pockets if thats what your aiming for.

Actually, it's an intangible fusion of the two ideals that I would say is impossible to put one's finger on. It's a paradox if there ever was one. If it were true that people only made music for themselves alone, they'd be the only ones to hear it. The very fact that people share their music and thank others for generally positive comments, for me casts considerable doubt on the claim that no one elses view matters. Making music is rarely like wanking, despite the oft made comparison.
But precisely at the same time, the paradox kicks in because when one is making music, it is often for one's own self and therefore the thoughts, desires and tastes of others pale in importance. I'd say at that time, they're not important.
Both elements are true, despite seeming to contradict each other. That's why it's a paradox.
I think those of us that tend to take the "I'm in this for myself" perspective aren't so much saying 'people and their views don't matter' as much as we are saying 'do not attempt to dictate to me the music I will play, how I play it or how you like it or want it'. Besides, each individual listener demands different things and he who tries to please everybody pleases nobody.
Considering the listener is a nebulous, vague concept though. Consider them how ? If you play metal, you'll attract headbangers, unlikely you'll attract soul boys. So who are you considering and what does the consideration consist of ?

 

[gullyjewelz]

If I made music for only myself to enjoy, I would be out of a business & then this would become just no more than a hobby. Which is the harsh reality of things.
I feel you with the punk rocker ideal because its the same way with hip hop lol. Though everythings only opinions, at the end of the day ppl don't buy music because you like it, they buy it because they like it. There will always be a boundry between the guys who are in it for the $$, and the people who are in it for the art. However, statistics show talent isn't always the key. 10% talent 90% business, the fundamentals of the music business. Some spell out Sell Out, some call it the art of business. But if you want to make money at this, you HAVE to consider the listeners. Im not saying don't make music for yourself to enjoy as well, but absolutely never ever cut out the clients that line your pockets if thats what your aiming for.

precisely why i asked my qeustion in the first place. in the studio. im all about the art. once that is done. is business time.!!!!

now can i find me a salesmen?
by the way . check out the video i just chopped up n posted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjlxzwakYvU