How'd I do?

tonesponge

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The mix is attached.

Here is my attempt at diy "mastering." --> Member Login

There was some remixing involved, mostly highpassing the reverbs and vocals. I also decreased the delay times on the "stereoizer" effect on the vocals. And I pumped up the bass guitar track freq at 11.5K to get more attack. Then I scooped out a little mud on the master fader and brick wall limited in multiple itty bitty stages until it couldn't take it anymore.

Guidance please. TY.
 

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A) This sounds like it has more to do with mixing than mastering.

B) It'd be difficult to comment on the mastering without hearing the original mix.

C) The MP3 clinic would be a better place for this...

D) It sounds like a horribly low-resolution MP3 (which is what I'm assuming it is). Something of a MUCH higher resolution (at LEAST 256kbps or better) before anyone could really hear through the "space monkeys" in the high end...
 
I put a new 360 bit rate mp3 up on soundclick. Here is another link to it.

SoundClick artist: tonesponge - page with MP3 music downloads

The original mix is attached to the original post. I'm not sure what the issue is there. Did you think that the attached mix was the master attempt, instead of the linked version?

I'm at the stage where I need to figure out how to master my own material and in the process learn better how to get my mix ready for mastering, so I hope you don't mind if I ask about it here. I've posted previous versions of the mix in the MP3 clinic, before I started trying to maximize the loudness. So I think I'm really in the mastering stage now, and figuring out in the process that there were still some problems with the mix that weren't apparent to me yet because of inexperience, but the mastering attempt revealed them.
 
RAMI, dude, I don't know why you are upset with me. Wasn't it you who said
I'm not saying the only way to do it is to slap a limiter on it. But, if you do slap a limiter and you can't get it to a decent volume without messing up the mix, then I don't think mastering is your problem. The problem is your mix. It's not ready for mastering.

So aren't I doing what you said by adjusting ths mix to make it more ready for mastering and then doing what Southside Glen said by applying multiple stages of itty bitty compression/limiting with equ in between?
 
RAMI, dude, I don't know why you are upset with me.

I'm not mad a t you at all. I'm "sighing" because you shouldn't even be anywhere near even discussing mastering with those mixes and performances. I'm not trying to be mean, and you may go listen to my stuff and think "this guys's music is crap. Why's he trying to preach to me about mixing???". So don't think I'm trying to talk down to you.

I think one of the problems is that you're mixing with the mastering in mind. You should just mix with the intention of getting a good mix, period.

In fact, even before mixing, tracking is more important. On your "moar funk" tune, the instruments aren't locked in to each other. It sounds like a very un-tight band. A song like that will never sound good, even if you get all the level, panning, and EQ issues together, because the performance itself is the weakest link.

I'm really not trying to be a prick. But you've got way too much other stuff to worry about before posting tunes in the Mastering forum. The most important part of the process is the first step...tracking....then worry about mixing.....then, you could start thinking about mastering.

Just my opinions. Not trying to discourage you at all.
 
Until one can decide for themselves whether the mixing and mastering they did was any good or not, it won't be.

G.
 
Tone, take a deep breath, get a cup of coffee or smoke a j, or do what ever it is you need to relax and get yourself into the state of open mindedness to accept all of the REALLY FUCKING GOOD ADVICE EVERYONE HAS GIVEN YOU UP TO THIS POINT.

Every one from Greg, Ray, Rami, Glen and John have all told you the same thing....but you seem to want to skip all those steps and go straight to a polished, eardrum exploding commercial mix.

That is just not going to happen.

First and foremost, nothing great can ever happen without a strong foundation. That means no matter what you do on the master bus, it will not matter if mix isn't balanced, with ample space for each instrument. A well balanced mix is not possible if each part wasn't tracked well. Sorry, but there is just no other way to achieve good, much less great, results if there are issues with the initial raw tracks. There is no way to get from point A(pre-production) to point B(a "commercial" sounding, radio-ready stereo track), without taking the time to do each phase properly.

I am by no means an expert.....just starting out myself, but if you listen and absorb what these very knowledgable people are telling you(repeatedly), you can achieve some very nice results.

Start with pre-production, sit down and flesh out what exactly it is you are trying to accomplish and convey with that certain piece.
Once you have a good working idea of what you want sound like, convey, and project to your target audience, then you can start tracking. Next, you need to make sure your source sounds pretty much just the way you want it to on the recording. How does your guitar sound? Is it in tune? Do the strings sound flat and lifeless? How is your tone? Tuning and intonation is crucial, with every instrument...even drums. How about room acoustics? If your room acoustics suck, so will the tracks you record. Whats the BPM on the song you are going to record? Can you stay in the pocket with your click track/metronome? If not....stop right here. Practice, practice, practice until you can nail the performance.

Tracking. If you have done your homework up to this point, then this is really just a matter of taking the time to do the tedious tasks of mic placement, and gain staging....these things take some serious time(at least for me) to get right. It just simply is not a case of pointing a mic at a source and hitting record. Each piece of equipment in your signal chain is going to have a sweet spot, that is the place where the signal will sound the best, noise floor, headroom, and the like are very important aspects to tracking. Gain staging issues has killed many of my "great" takes. There's a bit of art in finding the proper balance to accurately record your source. I use external preamps on most of my recordings, nothing fancy, but I like to try different "flavors" of musicality. I set my input levels so they are as close to staying in the sweet spot as I can possibly manage. Once that is achieved, I move onto setting the input on my DAW. I like to track with my source running about -12 dbs RMS, with peaks about -6 dbs. For me, it helps everything "sit" together better in the mix when I start trying to bring all the tracks together into a cohesive piece. If I record my sources at differnt levels, things just sound wrong when played back together. They dont relate well with each other and no amount of fader automation seems to help. They just do not work well with each other.
Now, if you are like me, you have an hour or two into the tracking phase and have not even pushed record yet.

Next comes the actual performance of the take. Don't cheat yourself or your final product by accepting a half-assed take. If it's not up to snuff, keep it, but record it again, and again, and again and again and......you get the point, until it is a "great" take. Sometimes you get a take that is fan-fucking-tastic except for.....(insert any number of reasons your not completely happy with a certain part) Go back and revisit those 3 - 20 takes that you have kept, is there a take where you botch the whole thing except for one little part that you nailed? Try comping the tracks, taking the best part of each take and making one glorious hit-record making take. If you have performed well, and stayed "in the pocket" with your click track/metronome, this is actually pretty easy....BUT TIME CONSUMING. Editting sucks in my opinion, but a necessary evil nonetheless. But I digress and am getting ahead of myself.

Rinse, lather, repeat until you have all the tracks recorded, synced up to your metronome. On playback you should be 93.43% satisfied with the way the songs sounds. If not, chances are you will never get it "fixed" without retracking.

I am giving you the condensed version here, I don't have the time or energy to type out every aspect of my recording process so I am assuming that all this is pretty straight forward and understandable up to this point.

Now that tracking is done, it's time to start mixing....my favorite part.

This is pretty subjective and I wont sit here and try to tell you what you need to do get a good mix. There are some guidelines and road signs that can direct you on the right path, but not much is really set in stone. Trust your ears, assuming they are trustworthy! If it doesn't sound right.....it's not, and EVERYONE, from average clueless listener, to the most experienced engineer will be able to hear it too. The difference being, average clueless listener will not know why it sounds bad, they will just choose to not listen to it again. An experienced eng will tell you instantly what you fucked up.
Once you have achieved a well balanced sweet sounding mix, and it truly is not that easy to do, then AND ONLY THEN, should you start THINKING about mastering.

Mastering. If you are having trouble balancing out your mixes.....you have no right to assume you can "master" that mix. Mastering is a science all on it's own. It is far removed from the mixing process and is usually done with a completely different approach and goal in mind.
Check out Massive Master's website, I am sure there are others too, but that's the one I am familiar with. Listen to the before and after clips. It is eye opening.
Mastering is so much more than, "make this fucker loud!" That is what breathes the life into the mix, the icing on the cake so to speak. It adds sheen, sparkle, and life to your already pretty freaking good mix. If it was as easy as slapping a limiter on that bitch and call it good. We would all be Rubin/Massenburg/Johns, or who ever it is you look up to in the field.

Your best bet is to humbly accept the "kernels" of knowledge that are regularily doled out on the forum from the very talented cats that take time outta there busy schedules to answer the same 16 stupid newb questions...over and over and over again. Accept them and study them until the light comes on and it starts making sense to you.

Like I said, I am just starting out in this amazing yet frustrating craft, so don't think I am trying to preach to you as though I know what's going on.....I lurked on the forum for years before I ever started trying to actually record, much less hand out advice.

Good luck and stay with it!
 
Tone, I'm not gonna be as hard on you as everyone else seems to be, but I will reiterate the fact that they've given you some good advice.

Problem #1: You use pre-recorded drum loops. You need to invest in a good quality Drum VST (Steven Slate Drums) and learn how to use a midi editor so you can not only write your own drums, but export them down to individual tracks where you can then mix them seperately. The alternative is to learn how to record your own drums. There is no (repeat NO) way around this step. None. Absolutely zero. Stop. I know you were thinking you might be able to get away with it. You can't. I'm serious. Just...you can't.

Problem #2: Your performances need to be a little bit tighter. In your more Funk Please song, I can hear the guitar not lining up with the drums during the chorus stops. Your rhythm instruments need to create a pocket that conveys the rhythmic feel of the song. For someone doing blues/funk I feel like this is something that you would care a lot about.

Problem #3: You treat things like EQ and Compression in a very heavy-handed manner. They are tools that are to be used when appropriate. Making broad EQ changes and high passes and low passes and what not on your final mix bus is NOT a good idea.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no advantage to brick wall limiting in itty bitty stages vs. doing it all at once, if we are talking purely in terms of threshhold and output ceiling terms. So that just seems redundant to me.

By the way, when people throw out the phrase "get your mix ready for mastering" 95% of what they are talking about is "get your mix sounding as good as possible, regardless of what you plan to do with it when you are finished." That last 5 percent may be "Gee, that snare drum sure is peaking kind of hard, maybe I can turn it down a little bit, or slap a hard limiter on it just to tame it a few db."
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no advantage to brick wall limiting in itty bitty stages vs. doing it all at once, if we are talking purely in terms of threshhold and output ceiling terms. So that just seems redundant to me.

There is a difference. It depends on the plug/hardware. Sometimes you can crush all at once, sometimes you can stack em up and do it little by little. Sometimes you might wanna EQ inbetween. It just depends. I've used some plugs that can handle it all at once, and some that get worse and you hit it harder. Stacking them and doing it little by little seems to help in that regard. Keep in mind that I'm no mastering engineer by any means. I'm just a hack home-recorder like the rest of us. I pay attention to the mastering guys though.
 
How'd I do?

You must have really burned a few brain cells on those complex-n-deep lyrics. :D
"Nom, nom, nom, nom, nom, nom, love your mom"...is that what you're singing?

A song about muff-diving! :cool:


Oh...why is the lead vocal way off to the left side?
 
Oh...why is the lead vocal way off to the left side?

I noticed that too, just yesterday. I think it happened when I changed the delay times on the stereoizer in the last remix. The delay on the left channel is shorter than on the right, and I think it must be that the two wave forms on the left side are constructively interfering in the mix, because that's the only difference between the left and right channels on the vocals. I didn't notice it when I remixed because my monitors weren't positioned well, but I bought some shelves yesterday to allow me to reposition everything and I can hear the details a lot better now.

I hear what everyone is saying, and I hope to remedy my studio situation soon so I can have the room to break out my ekit and focus on getting drum tracks that allow me to control each element. Until then, I think I will focus on doing guitar duet instrumental pieces, or something similar that won't be beyond the current limitations imposed by my physical studio environment.
 
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