How to use a "pancake" of tape?

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nddhc

New member
Im very new to the world of analog recording. Just picked up a machine that uses 7" reels of Quantegy 457 tape or similar.

I want to order some RMGI LPR35 (457 equivalent) and would like to get the 3600' pancake so I can put it onto my own reels. Also the price is slightly cheaper than the prewound stuff.

However, I have no clue how to go about doing this and was wondering if you guys could help me out?

Thanks! :D
 
Well, the advice I'd give (which I'd also take), is to order the 'prewound' stuff, when dealing with 7" reels.

With the standard, large hub, 10.5 aluminum reels, it's easy, 'cause most have screws that you can take out, removing the 2 flanges and placing the pancake inside and that's it. You can't do that when you're dealing with 7" reels. You'd have to somehow spool some of the pancake onto these but that is too risky for me, to even consider.

Again, my recommendation is to spend a little more and get the proper LPR35 on 7" reels. Yeah, I know, RMGI increased the price from about 15 to 22 bucks, not too long ago but it's still great tape, worth the amount spent.

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A turntable is one way of transferring tape to 7 inch reels. Put the pancake on to the turntable and the empty 7 inch reel on to your reel2reel. Lace up the tape and press play.
 
If you have access to a 10.5"-capable machine, what I usually do is to dismantle a 10.5" reel so that I've got just one of the side panels, put the pancake on that (with the machine on its back) and wind the tape onto the empty spool.
 
Can you unscrew the 7" metal reels in the same way as the 10.5" ones? All the 7" metal spools that I've seen look like you can dismantle them?

A problem if you only have plastic reels though?
 
I've never seen a 7" reel that was able to be disassembled.

The vast majority of them are plastic, all-in-one type of things. So you can take the risk of threading the tape (as mentioned earlier,) or just fugidol, and go with pre-wound reels.
 
These 7" reels look like they can be taken apart in the usual way as larger ones?

Can't be 100% sure but they look similar to 10 1/2" reels that unscrew & come apart?
 

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There are certainly some 7" reels that come apart, like the ones that Transcendental posted pictures of. But I just did a quick eBay search ("7 reel metal") and found that some, the Maxell, are selling for well over $25 us. I wouldn't pay that much for a 3M precision (6 screw) 10.5" reel.

If I was in need of 7" reels of tape, I'd use TinNedd's idea, which is a great one, and just buy cheap plastic reels and spool the pancakes off of a turntable on to those. A quick "snip" when the reel is full, and, if you are really into it, a quick (but neat) splice of some leader and you're done. I use 10.5" plastic reels for my pancakes. The plastic reels are cheaper, and the flanges don't bend like the cheap, 3 screw, metal ones do.
 
trancedental said:
Can you unscrew the 7" metal reels in the same way as the 10.5" ones? All the 7" metal spools that I've seen look like you can dismantle them?
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That may be, but what you won't be able to do is reassemble the 7" spool around the NAB core of the pancake ;)
In practice, the only way he can get a 3600ft pancake onto a set of 7" spools is by winding the tape onto them, either using a 10.5" capable machine or some other, slightly riskier method.
 
Something about syrup comes to mind...

I'm going to assume that you have a deck that can take 10.5" reels.

1) disassemble a 10.5" take up reel and reassemble it with the pancake inside.

2) using a second empty take up reel spool 1/2 the tape onto it (see hint below)

3) cut tape in the middle.

4) remove one of the 10.5" spools and replace it with an empty 7" reel

5) play the tape onto the 7" reel for a smooth packing or FF to get it done.

6) repeat with the other 1/2 of tape.

Finding the center hint: Set tape counter to 0. FF about half to the other reel. Swap reels (left for right, right for left) Now rewind. Did you return to 0? NO then was not center....
 
Sorry Guys looks like I've had a Homer moment? Doh!!

Maybe an option is to buy the 10.5 x 3608 . Plastic reel. Trident Hub with Eco Pack box. RMG reference: LPR 35 34513 which saves 30% off the total cost of 2 x 7" reels. It's the same trident hub as the plastic 7" version

Perhaps use one of the methods above to move the tape over, at least the tape won't spill out all over the floor like a pancake NAB core would!!

Seems to work out expensive buying tape on small plastic reels though!
 
The turntable method sounds promising - but since the hole of the hub is quite large, wouldn't it kind of flop around on the turntable and cause the tape to wind with uneven tension?

TinNedd, im curious if youve tried this before with success?

I have quite a few rolls of late 80s Ampex 457 given to me which is unusable due to sticky shed, but the plastic reels are just fine so id like to use them if possible.

I know I can bake them, but I really dont want to be dealing with the sticky shed problem again in a few months.
 
Some great and creative advice above but lets take a closer look and put this into perspective, taking from the following example (and prices):
http://www.splicit.com/rmgi_tape.html

1/4" x 1800' LPR35 on 7" Plastic Reel - $22.85
1/4" x 3600' LPR35 on Hub (pancake) - $33.93

2 LPR35 on 7" plastic reel costs $46
1 LPR35 on Hub (pancake) costs $34

From my own perspective, the $12 saved is simply not worth the hassle (and potential risks) associated with getting the pancake. Obviously this only applies to 7" reel capacity recorders. While the pancakes are great, a great way to save, I'd only consider when dealing with large 10.5" reels, which can be unscrewed (some can't) and easily accommodate these pancakes. Otherwise, it's too much hassle for the savings you get. Hey, but that's just me.;)

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nddhc said:
The turntable method sounds promising - but since the hole of the hub is quite large, wouldn't it kind of flop around on the turntable and cause the tape to wind with uneven tension?

TinNedd, im curious if youve tried this before with success?
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Iv done and it worked. You need 2 empty spare reels and it a bit of guess work to stop at half way.

As I remember the pancake had that packing white foam stuff? on top and bottom. You take the top one off. Then push the bottom of the pancake on top of the turntable so the turntable center comes through. Spend a little time getting the height and level of the turntable the same as the R2R. Do it in slow speed, I think I did it in fastforward straight to the reel whithout going through the heads? I don't think it was an uneven wind, but once on 7inch you can transfer it to another if your worried.

Its worth it if you have a few spare empty reels or a few to refill and you can get a good deal on pancakes. Just keep an eye out for a bargain if you have few empty reels lying about.:D
 
I used to use pancakes for everything when I was doing remastering at Pickwick records MANY years ago. I would simply load the pancake on a bottom flange and do what I needed to do with the top flange not used. I could spool tape off to any size reel that I desired and never had a spill. Of course, Pickwick had Ampex ATR-100's and with that machine it was nearly impossible to spill tape. So, to solve the problem just go out and buy an ATR-100 or two. ;)
 
Richard King said:
I would simply load the pancake on a bottom flange and do what I needed to do with the top flange not used. I could spool tape off to any size reel that I desired and never had a spill.
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That's basically what I was describing, but put more neatly. However, I'm not sure he actually has a 10.5"-capable machine.
 
jpmorris said:
That's basically what I was describing, but put more neatly. However, I'm not sure he actually has a 10.5"-capable machine.
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Ah, you are correct. He has no 10 1/2" reel machine. That makes it a bit tougher. There is no real (er, reel) easy, practical way to do what is desired.
 
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