How to split a guitar cable signal into two (inexpensively)?

[Ally-007]

Happy New Year, folks. Does someone have the electronics savvy to answer this? How I can split an electric guitar cable signal into two, so that I can have one branch going into an effects pedal and the other branch going into an audio interface? I have a hunch that a simple Y splitter cable won't work well, am I correct? Is there a way to do it properly, without paying out for an expensive splitter box with isolated output(s)?
Thank you!

 

[jimmys69]

Just a passive DI will do that.

Amazon.com

They used to be only $20...

 

[keith.rogers]

Yes. Any passive DI with a “through” 1/4” jack can send your original signal to your pedalboard and a balanced (XLR/mic cable) one to your audio interface. Here’s a cheap one I have and use. You can find used ones for half price at many Guitar Centers, eBay, whatever (watch shipping and taxes though.)

Live Wire Passive DI

 

[Ally-007]

Yes. Any passive DI with a “through” 1/4” jack can send your original signal to your pedalboard and a balanced (XLR/mic cable) one to your audio interface. Here’s a cheap one I have and use. You can find used ones for half price at many Guitar Centers, eBay, whatever (watch shipping and taxes though.)

Live Wire Passive DI

Thanks @keith.rogers, and @jimmys69. That Live Wire Passive DI link seems to be obsolete, for me, Keith. But yes, I might end up buying one of those DI boxes (or at least one with all 1/4" sockets instead of the XLR type. I found this item online. What do you think?:

But here's something I'd like your opinions on: I'm thinking of buying a multi-effects pedal that has an effects loop output (and return) on it. Could I just run a guitar cable from that loop output and plug it into the audio interface? (I presume it would carry a clean guitar signal)? Would that work?

 

[snow lizard]

Using a DI is the normal way to do it. The XLR output has the signal balanced and impedance matched so it looks like a microphone signal going to your interface preamp. The 1/4" "Thru" output is your normal guitar signal for going to pedals or an amp.

An AB/Y box can also work if your interface has a suitable 1/4" instrument level input. Most interfaces do these days. Instrument level is slightly different than line level. If you have a stereo pedal with buffered bypass, that could also work. The buffer drops the impedance of the guitar signal and you got 2 outputs.

A multi-effects unit with a loop might not give you a dry output. You'd have to look at the product manual.

 

[grimtraveller]

I've long used the Palmer Y box when I want to split the guitar signal. Sometimes a Y cable works well, but it's always touch and go.

 

[Ally-007]

Using a DI is the normal way to do it. The XLR output has the signal balanced and impedance matched so it looks like a microphone signal going to your interface preamp. The 1/4" "Thru" output is your normal guitar signal for going to pedals or an amp.

An AB/Y box can also work if your interface has a suitable 1/4" instrument level input. Most interfaces do these days. Instrument level is slightly different than line level. If you have a stereo pedal with buffered bypass, that could also work. The buffer drops the impedance of the guitar signal and you got 2 outputs.

A multi-effects unit with a loop might not give you a dry output. You'd have to look at the product manual.

Thanks for your input, @snow lizard. Yes, I thought about the possibility of using a small pedal with a stereo output, but found I don't have one. So I've ordered the M-Vave AB/Y box shown in my photo. The price, including shipping was very low, as it's coming from China. Hopefully it'll do the trick. That's a good point about the effects send possibly not being a completely clean signal. I can't tell from the user manual. Anyway, I've counted that particular unit out for now.

 

[keith.rogers]

@Ally-007, there's nothing really "obsolete" about an isolating-transformer-designed, passive DI box. That's why there's still dozens in the market.

Now, there's a slight whiff of shill about this thread, but I hope it works for what you want to do. As @snow lizard mentioned, it will depend on whether your [unspecified] interface has a Hi-Z/Inst input jack or mode, assuming you actually want to record a dry signal.

Not sure why the AB/Y pedal has a DC-input and USB output - do you know? If it has external power, you will want to make sure your power supplies for the amp/pedal-board, DC-power for the AB/Y pedal (?), and interface are reasonably well designed to prevent ground loops or other noise. Post a video of it in use when you get set up.

 

[ecc83]

This question about splitting a (passive) guitar signal come up regularly and so here is a bit of a ramble on the various ways, their advantages and disadvantages...

Boggo simplo...One plug to two plugs guitar cable.
Cheap as, no extra boxes to buy, no extra cables to find.
Downside. The impedance the guitar 'sees' is now the resultant of two inputs in parallel. If they are, as is usual, One meg Ohm then 500k Ohms will barely make a difference in most cases but there will be some loss of signal and possibly HF tone loss. You are also adding extra cable capacitance but that should not matter unless they are very long. i.e. over 3mtrs.

Using a DI box with a 'slave' output is no better in the vast majority of cases since the two jacks are invariably just in parallel*. A passive DI box will also have an input impedance likely no higher than 220k and possibly half that. Again, might not matter, depends on the guitar. An 'active' DI box will be better from the loading point of view but of course more expensive and needs phantom power or a battery.

Both the above situations can be fixed by introducing a 'buffer' into which the guitar is plugged. Note, this can be any pedal which is NOT of the daft "true bypass" variety. All Boss pedals are I think buffered? Now you can split the output with impunity. The pedal can be any effect, does not need to be 'on' just powered. You can of course buy dedicated buffer boxes but they always seem pricey to me for what they are and you might as well get an EQ say for a bit more dosh?

Last but not least is the bogey of a 'ground', aka hum aka earth loop. Whenever you connect two different devices together you run the risk of creating a ground loop and thus hum and sometimes other noises. The situation needs specific remedies so we will have to hope it does not occur but tackle it if it does.

*Orchid Electronics make an active DI box with an active split. Very good quality and not too expensive.

https://www.showbitz.co.uk/product/orchid-electronics-classic-di-box/ (I have no connection to the company in any way)

Dave.

 

[rob aylestone]

Where's the fun gone? The trying things out and experimenting. Before I could solder, drink or new what girls were I was twisting wires together and trying things out. Sometimes they worked, sometimes they didn't. I was even connecting two wires from the speaker on my grandads old radiogram to my grundig reel to reel via a din cable I hacked about and I discovered one of the three tags on the volume control made a buzz when I touched it so I connected my farfisa organ to it and it came out of the speaker, and went to the grundig. a few years later, when I did electronics for real - I learned about mic, line and speaker levels, impedances and how to solder, rather than twist and tape. Like Dave says - if you look at DI boxes, the vast majority simply parallel the in and out inside - and few people even notice.

Nowadays before you do anything people seem to need a youtube video!

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Sheesh, just use a DI like thousands of people do every day. It's pretty much the device designed to do exactly what you said you want to do. A passive is fine, though an active might be better for a passive pickup.

 

[Ally-007]

@Ally-007, there's nothing really "obsolete" about an isolating-transformer-designed, passive DI box. That's why there's still dozens in the market.

I said the link seemed obsolete.. (It pointed to a Yamaha brass instrument page, when I tried it, yesterday... though today it does point to the DI box.)

Now, there's a slight whiff of shill about this thread, but I hope it works for what you want to do. As @snow lizard mentioned, it will depend on whether your [unspecified] interface has a Hi-Z/Inst input jack or mode, assuming you actually want to record a dry signal.

Thanks. The interface is a Behringer UMC202HD, which does have swtchable Hi-Z/Inst inputs. Not sure what you meant by "slight wiff of a shill".

Not sure why the AB/Y pedal has a DC-input and USB output - do you know? If it has external power, you will want to make sure your power supplies for the amp/pedal-board, DC-power for the AB/Y pedal (?), and interface are reasonably well designed to prevent ground loops or other noise. Post a video of it in use when you get set up.

I guess the USB and DC inputs mean it's an active box, which I'm guessing is better than a passive one. Thanks for the tip about possible ground loops & noise.

 

[Ally-007]

This question about splitting a (passive) guitar signal come up regularly and so here is a bit of a ramble on the various ways, their advantages and disadvantages...

Boggo simplo...One plug to two plugs guitar cable.
Cheap as, no extra boxes to buy, no extra cables to find.
Downside. The impedance the guitar 'sees' is now the resultant of two inputs in parallel. If they are, as is usual, One meg Ohm then 500k Ohms will barely make a difference in most cases but there will be some loss of signal and possibly HF tone loss. You are also adding extra cable capacitance but that should not matter unless they are very long. i.e. over 3mtrs.

Using a DI box with a 'slave' output is no better in the vast majority of cases since the two jacks are invariably just in parallel*. A passive DI box will also have an input impedance likely no higher than 220k and possibly half that. Again, might not matter, depends on the guitar. An 'active' DI box will be better from the loading point of view but of course more expensive and needs phantom power or a battery.

Both the above situations can be fixed by introducing a 'buffer' into which the guitar is plugged. Note, this can be any pedal which is NOT of the daft "true bypass" variety. All Boss pedals are I think buffered? Now you can split the output with impunity. The pedal can be any effect, does not need to be 'on' just powered. You can of course buy dedicated buffer boxes but they always seem pricey to me for what they are and you might as well get an EQ say for a bit more dosh?

Last but not least is the bogey of a 'ground', aka hum aka earth loop. Whenever you connect two different devices together you run the risk of creating a ground loop and thus hum and sometimes other noises. The situation needs specific remedies so we will have to hope it does not occur but tackle it if it does.

*Orchid Electronics make an active DI box with an active split. Very good quality and not too expensive.

https://www.showbitz.co.uk/product/orchid-electronics-classic-di-box/ (I have no connection to the company in any way)

Dave.

Thank you, Dave; that's very helpful. I will refer back to your comments if I encounter any of the problems you mentioned.

 

[Ally-007]

Sheesh, just use a DI like thousands of people do every day. It's pretty much the device designed to do exactly what you said you want to do. A passive is fine, though an active might be better for a passive pickup.

That might be what I ordered (not sure)... but it looks like it's designed to do what I need. If not, it will probably come in useful anyway. Sorry, I have no info on the circuitry:

 

[bouldersoundguy]

That's not a DI. It will probably work, but a DI does things that can't (like provide ground isolation).

 

[Ally-007]

That's not a DI. It will probably work, but a DI does things that can't (like provide ground isolation).

Ah, ok - thanks for the info. Hopefully it'll do the trick, anyway. The foot switch might prove useful in some situations.

 

[keith.rogers]

....

Thanks. The interface is a Behringer UMC202HD, which does have swtchable Hi-Z/Inst inputs. Not sure what you meant by "slight whiff of a shill".

I guess the USB and DC inputs mean it's an active box, which I'm guessing is better than a passive one. Thanks for the tip about possible ground loops & noise.

So, you asked about one thing, but then quickly pointed to a device which doesn't actually do what you asked about. And, your "handle" here just reminded me of the site (Alibaba) where that particular pedal is being sold for peanuts. Apologies for connecting dots that don't exist.

Active DIs are only better if they do what you need, or if they produce a better outcome. They may work well for some kinds of passive pickups that are more sensitive to input impedance e.g., if you're only using the DI function and there's nothing connected on the "thru" jack. But, they will cost more, all things being equal, and come with the additional requirement for power. I had one for live use with some specific passive acoustic pickups; but, in the use case you described, a passive is just as good (IMHO), and probably cheaper.

The main difference between a DI and something like you've ordered is the balanced output, which can be quieter when connected to a mic-level input in some environments, especially a live sound stage, or if running a cable more than a few feet. (For electric guitar, it's probably not an issue, as the noise from the pickups probably exceed anything getting into the cable.)

 

[Ally-007]

So, you asked about one thing, but then quickly pointed to a device which doesn't actually do what you asked about. And, your "handle" here just reminded me of the site (Alibaba) where that particular pedal is being sold for peanuts. Apologies for connecting dots that don't exist.

Active DIs are only better if they do what you need, or if they produce a better outcome. They may work well for some kinds of passive pickups that are more sensitive to input impedance e.g., if you're only using the DI function and there's nothing connected on the "thru" jack. But, they will cost more, all things being equal, and come with the additional requirement for power. I had one for live use with some specific passive acoustic pickups; but, in the use case you described, a passive is just as good (IMHO), and probably cheaper.

The main difference between a DI and something like you've ordered is the balanced output, which can be quieter when connected to a mic-level input in some environments, especially a live sound stage, or if running a cable more than a few feet. (For electric guitar, it's probably not an issue, as the noise from the pickups probably exceed anything getting into the cable.)

Thanks for the clarifications. Surprisingly, that active box I ordered was cheaper than any passive DI box I could find, and its foot switch could prove useful, too. I like that all three audio sockets are 1/4" jacks. My situation is home recording in a fairly tight space. All my guitar pickups are passive and all cables are short, so i'm hopeful it'll do the job. Time will tell.

 

[Ally-007]

Where's the fun gone? The trying things out and experimenting. Before I could solder, drink or new what girls were I was twisting wires together and trying things out. Sometimes they worked, sometimes they didn't. I was even connecting two wires from the speaker on my grandads old radiogram to my grundig reel to reel via a din cable I hacked about and I discovered one of the three tags on the volume control made a buzz when I touched it so I connected my farfisa organ to it and it came out of the speaker, and went to the grundig. a few years later, when I did electronics for real - I learned about mic, line and speaker levels, impedances and how to solder, rather than twist and tape. Like Dave says - if you look at DI boxes, the vast majority simply parallel the in and out inside - and few people even notice.

Nowadays before you do anything people seem to need a youtube video!

I did much the same with my parents' 1960s 'stereophocic radiogram 3DSC' (Pye Ltd), when I was still at school. I managed to connect my guitar to it and use it as an amplifier. Built a phaser pedal shortly afterwards from a circuit in an eletronics magazine. I wish I still had that phaser, because I liked it better than any modern thing I've ever tried. But that's all ancient history. Thanks for the comment about the contents of some DI boxes; I will bear that in mind!

 

[ecc83]

Sheesh, just use a DI like thousands of people do every day. It's pretty much the device designed to do exactly what you said you want to do. A passive is fine, though an active might be better for a passive pickup.

Yes! You and I and many 'old hands' know this but surely this is what forums are for? Passing on knowledge to the newbs?

Rob. Yes! ALL for peeps experimenting and trying stuff out and 'learning by doing' but the world has changed, it has become far more safety conscious and (especially across The Pond) much more litigious. People are also put off all things electrical because of the hyper-dramtic effects of anything 'electric' in a Bond or sci fi movie. ***k! People are scared witless about phantom power when in fact is is in pretty much all cases totally harmless.

Yes, I took many silly chances in my yoof. Some 65 years ago as a young teen I was building 50W valve amplifiers in a damp cellar with a stone flag floor! Wonder I survived (I don't ever remember getting a shock mind)

Then, since for most of my adult life I have been professionally responsible for the public's electrical safety in the work I did I am very conscious that any advice I give on forums must be clear about risk and not encourage people to "dabble" with lethal voltages.

Dave.