How to record a 4 piece band with a 4 track.

H

Hiccup Master

New member
Hey Guys, I think I've come to the right place. My band and I would like to venture into the world of recording. The only problem is we really have no idea where to start, well, that's not true entirely, I did end up here didn't I? I was just wondering if you guys could suggest a good 4 track recorder, pref. a digital since I'm on my computer 24/7. Around a good price range, 250 or so. We have 1 lead singer, 2 back ups, bass player (me), guitar player and drums(it's just a basic drum set up, not a super big and fancy drum kit). I'm guessing we'll need a recorder that we can plug the bass and the guitar in straight from our amps, I know we'll probably need a Direct Box to do that so it sounds decent.

Anything else we will need, or need to know??
 
From your description you will need more than 4 tracks to record live takes, so I'm assuming you plan to lay down drums (and maybe bass) first, they overlay the other instruments and vocals separately. Nothing wrong with this appoach, just asking...

As for the rest of the stuff you'll need:

1 - Decide how you are going to record drums. How many mics are you planning on using? What arrangement?

2 - You can probably get away with going direct to the recorder with the bass, but don't count on going direct from your guitar amp to the recorder, even through a direct box, unless all your guitar parts are clean (no distortion). Direct recording of distorted guitars tends to suck the life out of the tone. Some folks claim using a Pod helps, your mileage may vary. Micing the guitar amp with a SM57 is how it's typically done and I think you will be amazed how good it can sound.

3 - Vocals, more mics needed, I assume you have these

4 - Effects. Are you going to want to add effects later to individual tracks or the final mix? How will you do this?

5 - Getting the final mix to a CD burner, how will you do this?

These are just random thoughts about some of the issues you will encounter while looking for a suitable recorder. Other folks will be along shortly to add more insight.

Let us know what other equipment you already have - mics - cables - effect processors - yada yada.
 
You don't need to record the initial tracks on a digital recorder if you want to transfer them to a computer. In your price range you'd be better off getting a high quality analog Portastudio like the Tascam 424 MK III ( for around $250) or the older and better specced 246 ($200 appprox). Both have 6 mic/line inputs which means you wouldn't have to buy a DI box for the guitars and bass. And they also have seperate tape outs for each track; so as long as you have four line ins on your soundcard you'll be able to just transfer tracks quite easily. The only drawback I can see is for the amount of stuff you're going to be recording (3 vocals, 2 guitars and a drum kit you're going to have to end up with a lot of stuff sharing tracks. And once you have two ( or more) instruments on the same track, analog OR digital, there's nothing on Earth that will seperate them.
 
One option when recording might be

Channel 1: Lead Vocal (Buss to Track 1)
Channel 2: Backing Vocals *Sharing a mic* (Buss to Track 2)
Channel 3: Lead Guitar *Miked up Cab* (Buss to Track 3)
Channel 4: Bass Guitar *DI* (Buss to Track 4)
Channel 5: Kick Drum (Buss to Track 4)
Channel 6: Overhead (Buss to Track 4)

At least that way you can tweak the Lead Vocal and the Guitar.
 
I'm with Mark 7...

Save a few more bucks (have everyone cough up like ten bucks a piece at each practice) get yourself a porta type studio AND a used Tascam mixer like a M-30 or something (Don't bother worrying over a new junk mixer) for like $100 with 8 channels X 4 Buss with direct outs and do it up. (You can also use the mixer in the instrument by instrument multi-tracking fashion.)

Of course you'll need some mics (Like 57's if you want to stay away from phantom power).
If you just want to set up a live recording, then IMO it's just as well to spend your cash on a cheap mixer and a few nice mics. Use a cassette deck or boom box with a line in, then send that mix to your PC, remix and burn)

Personally I'd get a used Tascam mixer and a nice 246 Porta and a couple SM57's, then multitrack instrument by instrument.

:)
 
Erm. If he's going to multitrack instrument by instrument then I think he could get away with just the 246 on its own.

If you don't object to bouncing you could try:

First Pass

Track 1: Bass Guitar (via Mixer Channel 1)
Track 2: Kick Drum (via Mixer Channel 2)
Track 3: Snare Drum and Overhead (via Mixer Channels 3 and 4)
Track 4: Clear

Second Pass

Track 1: Bass Guitar
Track 2: Kick Drum
Track 3: Snare Drum and Overhead
Track 4: Bass Guitar and Drums

Third Pass

Track 1: Lead Vocal
Track 2: Lead Guitar
Track 3: Backing Vocals
Track 4: Bass Guitar and Drums

And if we can confuse you further please let us know ;)
 
Of course your guitarist might want to add a rhythm guitar just to fill the sound out a bit. In which case, after Pass Two you might want to do this


Pass Three

Track 1: Rhythm Guitar
Track 2: Backing Vocals
Track 3: Clear
Track 4: Bass Guitar and Drums

Which leads to

Pass Four

Track 1: Rhythm Guitar
Track 2: Backing Vocals
Track 3: R.Guitar and B. Vox
Track 4: Bass Guitar and Drums

And finally

Pass Five

Track 1: Lead Vocal
Track 2: Lead Guitar
Track 3: R. Guitar and B. Vox
Track 4: Bass Guitar and Drums

Clear as obsidian!
 
We have some some mics, 3 right now, we can get 1 or 2 more I think. I was thinking about using 3 mics for the drums.

If I have access to a computer towards the end of that bid, I might go ahead and buy it if it's still pretty cheap.

I will look at the specs on the porta studio and the tascam mixer.

Mark7, I'm a little confused about what you were saying, but I have an idea, and that's kinda what I was thinking. Record like 3 things, then dump them on to track 1, record 3 more, dump to track 2, and etc. ect. like you said. How would the sound quality be doing it that way?

And I'll let you guys know what we decide to get so you can help me out even more!

Thanks Alot guys!
 
That dumping you refer to is commonly called bouncing by we 4 Track veterans (or ping-ponging, if you must). One thing you might like to do is to record any tracks that are going to be bounced with a high end boost. That way when you bounce them the inevitable loss of high end will be lessened.

I still think you should give the 688 serious consideration.
 
Yeah, bouncing is what I was talking about.

And yeah, I am really thinking about buying that 688, as long as the price doesn't go up TOO high.
 
Here's the way we did it last time I individual tracked with a 4 Track 6 channel Porta Two and a little Mackie 4 buss mixer.

Track 1 & 2: Drums and Bass (4 57's - 1 Kick center, 1 Snare center, 2 As Overheads hard left and right... Bass Direct center)

Track 3: Rhythm & Lead Guitar-(Split Direct-1 on each guitar and 1 57 on each cab. Panned double 3 and 9 o'clock on the mixer to TRY to spread it out)

Track 4: Lead vocals submixed with 2 mic backup vocals and 1 mic'd cab guitar solo punched in in two places.

It takes some work to submix the guitars.. the vocals were eaiser, but these were just jam recordings.

In this situation (Having 4 57's) we could have put two mics on each guitar cab.

On the Drum And Bass track I played electric acoustic guitar through an amp to keep the drums and bass together (Imagine that! lol) and it came through just enough on the drum mics to notice it here and there... I Should have cranked it a bit more.

There are no rules it's great!

:)
 
It was typical 4 track cassette quality which, you know, has some noticeable fidelity.
There were a few things working against me on that project... (Mostly time and the condition of my Porta Two. (Totally trashed!)
If I wasn't dealing with people that were Saturday afternoon clock watchers, then we could have found much sweeter mic posistions and better tones upfront... The way it went was get there and set everything up in like ten minutes then track 6 or 7 tunes as fast as possible. The drummer wanted to be somewhere else and by the time it came to the vocal tracks there was no time left. ( We retracked the vocals and solos another day.)

If you take the time to set up and really dial the sounds in so you're making the most out of the room and the mics... AND if you're tape machine is in decent shape, then you can pull off a pretty ok tape.

If I was in that band now and was going to undertake a project, I would get some additional mics and try live tracking (Because we had the seperate rooms to pull it off and I now have the mixer to do it)... I'm sure it'd come out really sweet.
(You gotta love a 4 track cassette)

It was just a rock band.

What kind of band are you gonna be recording?

:)
 
Hiccup Master said:
You can assume right mark, but I did however place a bid on a Tascam Portastudio 424 MK 2 record for 210 bucks, and I won, suprisingly enough. So I'll let you guys know when I get that and then I'll be asking question on setting everything up.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear that. You would have had oodles of fun trying to figure out how it worked, and even more fun actually recording on it :D

I have to disagree with Billy vis a vis getting a seperate mixer. I'm not saying you shouldn't it's just that I don't really think any of the current crop of budget mixers will give you anything more than the 424's can: other than insert points for compressors and gates (one of the reasons most people around here recommend the older 246). I know the MKII has only four full featured channels but, if you follow the recording plan I set out above (either of them) that shouldn't be a major problem.

Good luck with it! ;)
 
I'm not saying it's mandatory to have a mixer in that situation (I'd get mics and a verb or monitors after a tape machine), but
(personally) if I had a mixer years ago I could have done alot more with a 4 piece band and 4 tracks (Or just as much, but way eaiser, especially for Drum & Bass tracks. With a $100 8x4x2 mixer, some mics and alittle work you can get a really decent EQ'able Drum & Bass sound... It's just one approach.)

I admit I'm now biased and addicted to the flexibilty of a mixer, but I'm also very aware of the fact that on my Porta Two I can only do four channels to two tracks.
With my mixer I can send 12 channels to two tracks (Which is more than enough, but if you're dealing with a larger drum kit OR added percussion on a tune OR you want a Mic'd and Direct Bass Guitar mix in addition to the Drums, then it's all good.



Mandatory? No.
Inexpensive and flexible?
For sure.

:)
 
We play shitty punk rock and we have a good time doing it.

I was wondering if I could record each piece, separate onto a tape, so have vocals on 1 tape, guitar on another, etc. then just hook the mk2 up to my computer at home and using some software like cakewalk and mix everything there, would that work?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top