How to achieve that HUGE Guitar Sound?

J

Justin.Irish

New member
Here’s a questions for all of you huge guitar sound fans – I’m going into the studio in a couple of weeks, and I’m hoping to achieve the biggest kind of a “wall of sound” on the guitar tracks. I was thinking of centering the original guitar track in the center, and do two more tracks and pan them hard left and hard right. Would that be the best choice?

I’m still pretty knew at all this recording knowledge and the studio’s hourly charge is quite hefty, so I’m really trying to get exactly what I want to do planned out before we get there.

Our style is more like really hard rock and we also have another guitarist, so I’m sure that will also change the way to achieve the best sound.

Thanks for your time. Any advice you have is greatly appreciated.

Cheers, Justin
 
Justin, You’re lucky that you’ll probably get a lot of useful (& differing) advice on this forum – I tried getting this “wall of sound” (in a hard rock context) years ago & made some terrible mistakes. I'm now happy with my results, but bear in mind that this is all subjective; take my words as just an opinion. Hopefully I can help you consider a few things.

Firstly, your TONE will be a great factor in creating this ‘hugeness’ that you are looking for. It’s a big misconception with many guitarists that the more overdrive or distortion you use, the BIGGER your guitar will sound. In fact, the opposite is usually true. I remember seeing Metallica support AC/DC many years ago. Although they both sounded huge, everybody I was with agreed that AC/DC sounded so much bigger. This was where I first heard the proof that LESS GAIN (giving you a more organic sound) definitely sounds that much bigger.

Regarding the tracking of your guitars, backing off the gain will also be of benefit to you. Using hi-gain takes up so much sonic space when recording & it will cause a degree of muddiness when you start layering a riff, for example. My early recordings of multiple layers with lots of distortion just sound so small compared to my 'cleaner' overdriven tones these days.

If you get your tone right, you should be OK recording left, right & central, if that’s what you want to do. Personally, I think that just 2 guitars (L & R) sound so much bigger. It’s the different nuances in each performance that add to the depth of tone. When a 3rd (central) guitar is added to the equation, these nuances are masked-over which gives a smoother but definitely not a bigger sound (to my ears). As you’re working with another guitarist, I would definitely be inclined to just pan your riff performances L & R for a nice, big, wide sound. Your different personalities when performing will really add to the depth. Adding a central guitar will smooth-over the tone, diminish the personality & make the big, wide effect sound narrow & (therefore) smaller. Just my opinion. BEST OF LUCK!
 
Good advice, Maurice.

Less really is more, in a lot of cases.


You might consider using a room mic on one of the tracks, and panning that somewhere just off-center (instead of a third layer).
 
Left and right only. But I would put them slightly off of hard left and right. Let them bleed to the other speaker a little. It still has the power, but gets rid of the obvious overdub.

Now for my power trick I have said on this BBS before......

4 tracks

2 clean

2 distortion

Neck pickup clean with bridge pickup distortion on one side.

Brigde pickup clean with neck pickup distortion on the oher side.



(Optional) Run all those into a stereo reverb. Just a hint of verb though. In this case, pan everything hard.
 
Yes, good advise from Maurice.Multi tracked, heavily distorted guitars turn to mud very quickly.Double tracking parts and panning fattens up a guitar part nicely.Alot of my heavy songs consist of two differant rhythm parts.Ex.)Rhythm part one panned left.I'll double that part, eq. it differantly and pan that right, leaving it lower in the mix and adding reverb.I'll do the opposite with rhythm part two.Get the double tracked parts as tight as possible and you've got a wall of guitar thunder.
 
Clarification:

When I say clean....I do not mean JAZZ clean, I mean like a Fender clean. Not full blown, but still shimmering.

And for distortion. Yes. Less is more.
 
Outlaws advise on two clean and two distorted guitars works great too.The clean guitars help give the distorted guitars definition.
 
Outlaws, Great tip on using clean guitars & different pickups in the layering – can’t wait to try it myself. I’d also go along with your advice concerning the slightly-off hard left & hard right. Sounds a bit more natural, doesn’t it? (esp w/headphones).

Just thought of another point, Justin. One thing to remember when trying to achieve a particular sound is how the listener will perceive it. If you get your HUGE sound & use it all the time with every riff, it will no longer sound as big because it won’t be contrasting against anything. Black is blacker against white. A minor mode sounds much darker when placed after a suitable Major etc. The same contrast theory goes for tone. If, every so often, you play a riff with a single (small sounding) guitar & then bring another 1 or 2 bigger sounding guitars in on the act, you’ll be constantly ‘reminding’ the listener about your BIG sound intention. A good modern example of this is the way Audioslave’s Tom Morello recorded the intro to Show Me How To Live. For the first few bars you hear a riff with just one (mono) guitar in the centre w/ drums. After about 20 seconds, the song’s main riff starts, this time double-tracked L&R w/bass. The contrast sounds huge (if you can, you must check it out w/headphones!!). This main riff would (no way near) have the same big impact if the song had been double tracked from the start. >> Just another idea.
 
Hey outlaw:

I was planning on double miking the guitar (sm57 up close and condensor a few feet away)... how would you do this and your idea at the same time? would that be overkill you think?

thanks
 
For a heavy, agressive and still open sound, use a Sennheiser MD421 close to the grill. More highs at the center, more lows at the edge of the speaker.

For more low end, the MD441.

For a more 'tight' sound, the Beyer M88.

If you're a very tight player, try more tracks. If you're not so tight, two tracks panned left right will get you a decent wall.

A delay of 20-30 ms on the guitar tracks, panned L/R as well will work also.

Sometimes a number of different short delays gives a huge wall of sound.
 
photoresistor said:
Hey outlaw:

I was planning on double miking the guitar (sm57 up close and condensor a few feet away)... how would you do this and your idea at the same time? would that be overkill you think?

thanks
Click to expand...

I haven't tried it before like that. I would assume you could must mix the 2 mics into one track that sounds good and have that consist of the first take of 4.

The only thing that comes to mind that could be a problem is too much room atmosphere after 4 takes.

It seems like a good idea if it was done to 2 of the tracks. Maybe both the distortion takes.

Its something to try though. Good idea.
 
If you're doing the double thing . . . try using a different amp for each take.

Or find a POD setting you like for the second one. The key is to get something coming out of the right channel that's similar, yet different enough from what's coming out of the left . . . to sort of fill out the holes and complete the other's tone.

I have nothing against using an amp modeler in this type of situation, as long as one of your tracks is done with a real amp. Sometimes they're the only way to dial in that one tone that will compliment and add size or whatever to the other.
 
We do a lot of work with new school metal bands and they seem to always want that huge guitar that you're describing. Tracking two separate rythym lines is essential for this, even if there is only one guitarist.

Another good trick, besides the great ones everyone has so far mentioned, is to always track your direct signal at the same time as the amped signal. (obviously on separate tracks). Do this for both rhythm guitar lines. You can blend in the clean tracks to add definition to a line that's muddy or even throw an amp sim plug on it to add even more texture. You then can mix one of the real amp tracks hard left with the direct signal about 15% right and opposite for the other real amp track.

The direct tracks are great for adding effect to and you can keep the hard panned amped tracks mostly dry to keep things up front and wide. If you want to add even more life into it automate some panning on the direct tracks... but just slightly... maybe randomly from 10% to 25% on both sides. Adding movement adds life! :D

good luck
ls
 
I like that idea, too, and the reason I like it is because once you get in to all the seriously overdriven tracks that are so common with this type of music, you lose all sense of dynamics. Basically, everything is squashed to where it just sounds like white noise after a while.

Having something in there with some sort of dynamics left in it is essential.
 
great thread, while we're here, if i may, what "effects fx" help achieve a HUGE "metal" guitar sound?... thanks...
 
Hi!

I tried other stuff: the main track rather slight distorted, the other one rather heavily and low in vol. (done frome the main signal that I recorded from my parker at the same time - in fact the DI tip from above) Gives quite a nice additional crunch.. Maybe the thing you're looking for. And: the bass may make a lot of your git sound...

The tip with one amped and one one sim track sounds nice to me, too... The sim track may give you some additional 'sterility' that seems to be kinda definition. You can also try alot wiht gates and everything in the mix...

aXel
 
excellent thread...
I forget to mention the bass relationship as well. Sometimes that huge wall of guitar that your are describing that you desire is actually half the bass guitar. Make sure you carve out some of the down low on the guitar tracks to make room for the bass and also chop of some of the higher frequencies on the bass to make room for those gits....

good luck
lost studios
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top