how much

I'd charge him nothing. Instead I would go for co-authorship and hope he generates squillions of dollars in royalties (e.g. like Bernie Taupin and Elton John).
 
gecko zzed said:
I'd charge him nothing. Instead I would go for co-authorship and hope he generates squillions of dollars in royalties (e.g. like Bernie Taupin and Elton John).
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That's probably what I'd do, just because it seems simpler. (i.e. probably no money will change hands).

However, if the goal is to make money, charging him a set price is probably more reliable. If you only write one or two songs for other people, and you charge them for it, you will definitely make money. As opposed to Gecko's suggestion where you probably won't.

If you write a lot of songs for other people, the co-authorship thing makes more sense since it becomes more likely that a song will make squillions of dollors.
 
In any business transaction - the market will bare the acceptable rate. So, charge what you think you're worth and what you think the customer will pay.

If the songs won't be published - then getting paid up front makes sense.

That being said - session singers or session players often charge from $50-$100 per session. If you think your writing chops have as much value as singing or playing chops - that may be a reasonable range.
 
I cringe at the thought of getting paid up front and relinquishing the ability to make future royalties. However, that's just a paternal instinct of songwriting I guess. That is probably cool in this situation if you don't think you'll lose the opportunity to get squillions of bucks. $50-100 seems reasonable because at say $20 bucks an hour, you get 3-5 hours to write (although there are blocks/revisions that may take you over that).
Congrats on the writing job too... you're also teaching guitar aren't you? Cool....:cool:
 
Nicole_Rose said:
as far as i know, there's no intent to publish the song.
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Then you should do it for free now with agreement of sharing any future songwriter's money, unless of course you are a professional writer, in which case you probably wouldn't be asking the question.
 
Oancient1 said:
Then you should do it for free now with agreement of sharing any future songwriter's money, unless of course you are a professional writer, in which case you probably wouldn't be asking the question.
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there will be no future songwriters money because the song will not be published.

and there's a site that writes songs on command and they charge 200 dollars a shot.
 
Nicole_Rose said:
there will be no future songwriters money because the song will not be published.

and there's a site that writes songs on command and they charge 200 dollars a shot.
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I have heard some of material coming out of "song shops" - normally they take advantage of.....oops, I meant they provide services to lyricists who want to put their lyrics to music.

Often the melodic/harmonic/rhythmic production is very predictable. I actually had two different songwriters play me CDs of "their songs" - it was the same production with different lyrics ( I happened to remember the name of the "production house....and it was the same for both writers).

Now there are some legit facilities that will take a demo, re-record the parts and add a talented vocalist, which makes a song shine - and this production faciilities may be worth the cost!

Naturally this is all different than what Nicole_Rose is considering. Personally, I think if someone is willing to pay for your words and if you don't have a specific concern about giving up copyright - then certainly make it while you can.

However - I have always been a musical mercenary - I often sell my skills to the highest bidder. Given that potential for future copyright/royalty earnings can be less likely than gettig hit by lightning.....while holding a winning lottery ticket - I often choose to get paid up front.
 
$200 bucks eh? Is that for music or lyrics?

Anyway on a more serious note - how many zeros in a squillion? :confused::):D
 
Id do it for $50. Unless he is a jerk or/and he is very rich. Then Id do it for $60.:D
Seriously, I think around 50 is a good deal for the both of you.

Mike
 
ido1957 said:
$200 bucks eh? Is that for music or lyrics?

Anyway on a more serious note - how many zeros in a squillion? :confused::):D
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I believe Bush, Jr. uses a squilliion for budget deficit calculations - I think it is 36 zeros.........but then you have to divide by the national debt of Zimbabwe and carry the 6.
 
mikeh said:
In any business transaction - the market will bare the acceptable rate. So, charge what you think you're worth and what you think the customer will pay.
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I agree with mikeh. Negotiating with your client will determine the true market value of your work. Go in with a high offer. If he balks, counter with something lower. If he accepts immediately, kick yourself for not starting higher.

I guess what you're really asking for, though, is a point of reference from which to begin, right? Mikeh's suggestion about session players might work, or you could try to estimate the amount of time it will take to complete the task and then multiply that by a dollars-per-hour amount that you think is reasonable.

Regardless of all that, if I were you I'd also insist on being credited by name for the lyrics. If anyone else hears and likes them, you want to be able to take credit for them, even if you've waived the right to earn royalties from them.
 
$50 for a lyric? Come on. If you believe in what you write, If you consider it art &/or poetry don't sell it too short.
A fee, an agreement re future songwriting royalties (they may not think to publish but they may get an offer out of nowhere or be covered by someone) and an understanding about the other person not reworking your words without negotiation and agreement would be a minimum for me.
Either that or free to a friend (but with agreements in place).
 
I've been away for a while.....

......out gigging for 13 days so I haven't followed anything here for a bit. Having said that.........I would charge $200 as long as I didn't lose my rights to the lyrics. $500 if they want the song outright.

Rant begins here. EVERYONE wants a deal today in the music biz and it is starting to wear on me. An example we have all heard is,"My friend has a computer and he will record me for $10 (Or even free!)." Well, if they want their friend's crappy equipment, skills, and tinny ass sound then go for it. The same goes for lyrics/melodies. As songwriters, we strive to do our best and as such should be paid for our best. If our best isn't good enough then go some to someone else. Usually we aren't writing this stuff in 20 minutes. We write and rewrite and polish and revise and finally either get sick of the thing or come up with something of which we can be proud. We must stop underselling our skills. Tell them up front what the cost will be if they decide to use it. Then submit the draft to them for approval or revision. If they use it, get paid. They know what to expect and are able to provide input and pay a reasonable fee for the process.

Otherwise they can go see their 'friend' who has a free computer recording setup. He must be a master at writing free lyrics also. End of rant

Dave's Awesome Blog
 
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well the deal i'm going for is 100$ and 2% of the publishing should he ever publish it. i figure as an unknown lyricist 2% isn't asking too little or too much as publishers always want your share of the publishing if you're unknown.
 
While there can be any number of publishing agreements - the publishers I have worked with for the last several years get 50% of publishing (which I have found to be rather common - at least in a writer contract - vs. an artist contract). So in a fairly routine writer's publishing agreement with a co-writing situation if the lyrics are equally of value to the melody - you could normally expect 25% of publishing (50% co-writer credit - divided by 2 for the publisher's cut).

Given that you are getting a flat fee "up front" - then anything less than 25% is reasonable - and 2% is perhaps overly generous on your behalf. However, I would clarify where your 2% comes from. If you appear on a copyright as 2% - then a publisher would likely pay you 1%. You may want to consider asking your co-writer for 4% - to assure you get 2% when/if a publishing deal is cut.

However, any % of zero....is still zero - so if no one plans to market the song (and more imporantly if the song is published but never placed) 2% vs. 50% may be moot.
 
that may be the case for established writers, but very often the publisher will try to get all of the publishing from the writer(s) if they are new to the business. i wanted him to be able to publish it so i decided that taking % from what the publisher wants won't incline them to not publish it. so i'll take my 2% and be happy. :)
 
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