How many overheads do you use?

[Simman]

I don't like the idea of using more than one, but on my last recording, my wuhan china was a rabid monster and I'm wondering how to fix that (I fixed it by....playing softer...like how you should ). Here's a big STUFF YOU to the drummer that stole my 22" wuhan china - that was much smoother if not less loud.

What is your cymbal setup, a philosophy statement (how do you try to get/capture some particular cymbal sound?), and how does your micing technique of cymbals work with that?

I have a 4 piece set, with hats, crash, ride, and when recording, a china. I like one mic per drum, and one mic for all cymbals. I don't like big mic setups. Last session I put it directly overhead above the edge of the ride/bass drum on my 4 piece, aimed at the snare drum. Get a great hat sound, crash sound, ride is soso, china (to the right of ride) is too harsh by its own design.

Vote twice if appropriate! Votes are public so you can match up cymbal setup with mic setup.

Count cymbal close micing as O/H's

Sorry I've been drinking but how about adding, what a stupid question to the choices

 

[PhilGood]

I have a suggestion - it might be a bad one but I will say it anyway:

Would tracking cymbols seperately from the rest of the kit sound better? I haven't got a drum kit to hand so can't try it out. For example if you just recorded kick snare hats toms with the drummer playing normally, then get him to do it again just playing the cymbols. The OH tracks would be clean of Toms, hats and snare, and would be easier to mix?

Do people do this?

Same mistake most people make: The overheads are NOT "cymbal mics". They do so much more than people think. They provide a stereo image of the kit (which is why you only ever need two) and they catch the room and the bottom snare head as long as the surface under the snare is reflective.

 

[Fishmed]

At my place, I track with two OH, kick, snare, and all toms.

Mixing is another story that varies on the song.

 

[JIMBOdrummer]

I think the one thing we can all agree on is that NO the overheads are not cymbal mics. They are for imaging.

if you have an inexpensive mixer like i do (alesis multimix which i HIGHLY recommend for a budget home studio) then you should take the time to realize what OH's realy are. you can line the left and right OH into the L and R inputs of a SINGLE stereo line as apposed to taking up two mono lines and treat them as one stereo line. you can do the same with toms (mic hi toms to the L and floors to the R) to save mixer space. if the toms are tuned well you shouldn't have to mix them separately.

then i like an sm-57 on snair, a beta 52 on kick and i still have two lines to play with.

after all is said and done, unless your recording a drum solo, then you need to remember that you're recording for the sake of the song and that two OH's a snair and bass mic, will be fine behind a full band after its mixed

 

[mixsit]

you can line the left and right OH into the L and R inputs of a SINGLE stereo line as apposed to taking up two mono lines and treat them as one stereo line.

I'm presuming you mean the typical linked dual line inputs at the mixer? -with out board pres then for those?

 

[JIMBOdrummer]

I'm presuming you mean the typical linked dual line inputs at the mixer? -with out board pres then for those?

ya well its a dual imput so they can say that its an 8 input but its really just a stereo line

 

[snow lizard]

I think the one thing that I can agree on is that the overheads are there to grab the entire kit, not just the cymbals.

I like dark, thin cymbals for recording. Zildjian K's or such. Easier to control than the bright, heavier ones. Still not a good idea to play them too hard.

Stereo mic techniques are where your "imaging" comes from whether it's drums or anything else.

The more microphones, the more chances for problems with phase cancellation and less overall sound. I suppose using mics with a tight hypercardioid or figure 8 pattern could help with isolating toms. Some people might like to use gates on the tom mics but I'd hate to hear them open and close in the mix. More hoops to jump through later on. It changes if you're sample replacing of course.

I think looking at the entire kit as one instrument instead of 17 individual ones is a big help. One overhead above the kit will grab the cymbals and the attack from the heads. One mic beyond and slightly above the floor tom aimed at the snare for spatial perspective. One mic out in front of the kit aimed at around the top of the kick, a few feet away for kick drum attitude and shell resonance from the whole thing. All 3 of these mics will pick up the whole kit but with different tone components traveling in different directions. Carefully phase aligned of course.

Maybe add a close mic on kick and snare in case you need it for rock sounds. Maybe a nice room mic like an SM 57 pointed away from the drum kit and compressed to oblivion.

There's about 100 different ways to do it.

 

[JIMBOdrummer]

Just to start another convo...

if you voted for anything other then Two OH's can you explain why.

 

[dodgeaspen]

I tried the recorderman method from a post on this site and love it. You have excellent stereo separation. I also use a kick microphone. I'm looking into an SM 57 for my snare.

 

[grimtraveller]

Yea - LOTS of people do that. A lot more than will admit it for sure...

Just don't let any of the purist type folks find out...they'll tear you a new one for "cheating" and not "capturing the essence of the song - in the room - in the moment"...blah blah etc. etc.

So many great recordings over the last 45 years have involved some kind of "cheating" ! Not even jazz has always been as pure and spontaneous as the purist would like. At the end of the day, whatever it takes, mes amis, whatever it takes....
Besides, what some view as cheating, others view as progress or at least a way to achieve that which one wants to achieve. And as long as the end product is genuinely satisfying, what does it matter ? Some will dig it, some won't, same as if it was all recorded according to whatever the purist standard may be {whatever that is....}

 

[grimtraveller]

I think the one thing that I can agree on is that the overheads are there to grab the entire kit, not just the cymbals.


I think looking at the entire kit as one instrument instead of 17 individual ones is a big help.

There's about 100 different ways to do it.

Amen to all three points. The second point is an interesting one because the drums are one instrument, but with a range of sound and very different sounds at that, that few other instruments ever have to deal with.

 

[Hudd]

I like on up top and on one the hats. But the more mice you use the more options you have. Just remember the 1 to 3 rule. Ever foot above the source you are you should be 3 feet apart.