How Do You Rate Guitarists

J

juststartingout

New member
Reading the EVH thread, someone said, I wonder how he will be rated. What do you use to rate a great guitarist.

How fast they are?
How difficult the stuff they play is?
Do you need to like their music?
Do they need to write?
Do they need to be a showman?

If they are great when they are 18, do they need to be great at 45?

Do we give extra points when they die or do you get even more points for surviving all the parties and making it to 50?

What actually makes a great guitarist, a legend, a guitar god?
 
It's the same for all musicians, not just guitarists:

1) Does their playing contribute to the song, or detract from it? How good were their own compositions or interpretations of compositions?

2) Do they advance the state of the art of their instrument, taking a long-term view?

Doesn't matter how fast, although a minimum level of technical competence is required. That ain't 1/64 notes at 200 bpm.

Showmanship is irrelevant, but fame helps. I've heard 1000 times about great guitarist who nobody has heard of, but every time they get a record deal I'm underwhelmed by everything except their technique. The problem with fame is that without it, it's hard to do #2.

They don't have to write their own stuff, or even improvise, but they have to communicate a relevant artistic vision. The longer they are great the better, but short-lived is OK. Randy Rhodes was great.

On the other hand, EVH was tremendously influential in 1990, but far less so in 2000. It doesn't matter that he spent the '80s playing with keyboards, his canon is basically Van Halen's first two albums. I believe history will restore some of his luster, but not all he once had. The basic problem is that most of Van Halen's songs weren't very good compositions and sound very dated now.

SRV has the same problem, plus his playing was very derivative. There is nothing he did that Hendrix hadn't already done.

On the other hand, the tragedy of Hendrix is that he was really just getting started. I think '70s fusion would have sounded very different had Hendrix lived because he would have singlehandedly done most of it, and made it popular. He would have been the guitar version of Stevie Wonder and then totally preempted Prince. Imagine Parliament Funkadelic featuring Hendrix . . .

Thus rock would not have split so dramatically from R&B and consequently hip-hop. The corollary here is that the '80s would have never happened, musically speaking. On the minus side, he almost certainly would have recorded a disco record.

Anyway, by #1 & #2 above, the greatest guitarist of the 1980s was the Edge. Where the Streets Have No Name is the best guitar track of the decade.

If you prefer the guitar hero style, try to pick up where Vernon Reid left off. The only frontier rock has not fully explored is true atonality.
 
juststartingout said:
What actually makes a great guitarist, a legend, a guitar god?
Click to expand...

i think a spin on this would be will there be anymore guitar gods?
a lot of people hear a new guy and say they're copying or stealing from th old guys ....for me though personally what makes th "guitar god" is how i feel when i hear them, it may be a combo of th song or band as a whole,or just how they appear or act when they play ...case in point Rick Neilsen i don't think anybody here will say he's a guitar god but in my book he would be top ten, he's loony, he has tons of guitars (mucho points)they write good ROCK songs....it's all subjective to time of arrival also Hendrix,VH,Iommi all did radical things for their times they found a niche no one filled, there aren't many niche's left ....just my opinion
 
I don't attempt to rate guitarist in the way you describe. I know the guys I like and my reasons for liking them can be very different. Isn't this how most people work? If you say you like the white stripes and I respond that the White stripes are a pile of shit, is that going to change your mind? I doubt it.
 
mshilarious said:
It's the same for all musicians, not just guitarists:

2) Do they advance the state of the art of their instrument, taking a long-term view?
Click to expand...

I like that criteria!!

I also think showmanship may be an important element, at least to me. Showmanship, shows a comfort with the insturment and the need to share it with the others, with the added body language (is body language an insturment of it's own?). Maybe the difference of jamming instead of playing. SRV, BB King, Buddy Guy all have a stage presence that adds to their music.
 
mshilarious said:
Anyway, by #1 & #2 above, the greatest guitarist of the 1980s was the Edge. Where the Streets Have No Name is the best guitar track of the decade.
Click to expand...

So you say. I happen to think otherwise. I actually like criteria #2. It's about as objective as I've heard.

There are many greats. No greatest.
 
Not fair to rate

I think all guitarists are good. Each has his/her own technique, tone and vibe that makes them different. As long as they are doing something that has a groove and the tone is good I am down w/ that..

Just picked up the new Slipknot, very nice guitar work on this CD....
 
I rate my guitarist by how far apart their feet are, and how far back they are leaning when they are doing a solo....also, by how black and frizzy their hair is, plus they have to usually wear a top hat, and have a cigarette hanging out their mouth.

so that pretty much means Slash is the best.
 
mshilarious said:
It's the same for all musicians, not just guitarists:

Anyway, by #1 & #2 above, the greatest guitarist of the 1980s was the Edge. Where the Streets Have No Name is the best guitar track of the decade.
Click to expand...

If you take away the effects, there's not a whole hell of a lot left! Oh, pentatonic meanderings you like. Okay.

There is no 'best'. There is only "what I like".

For example, who is the better player between:

Django Reinhardt and Ry Cooder.

Wes Montgomery and Steve Vai

Chris Parkening and Albert Lee

Robben Ford and Larry Carlton

For me, the answer in all the above cases is "It depends"

. . . and where does Slash rate in the 'best guitarist" stakes?

Nice hat, dude, what ya got in the case?
 
mshilarious said:
...the greatest guitarist of the 1980s was the Edge. Where the Streets Have No Name is the best guitar track of the decade.

If you prefer the guitar hero style, try to pick up where Vernon Reid left off. The only frontier rock has not fully explored is true atonality.
Click to expand...
The Edge?!
Surely all he did was play arpeggios into a delay pedal?
Yawn.
Edge is top of my 'most boring guitarists of all time' list ;)

Anyway, here's my list of favorites and why I like them:
Hendrix - OK, it's a cliche to like Hendrix, but the guy communicates in such a gutsy way through his instrument it's impossible to ignore.
Marc Ribot - An innovative approach to the guitar. He often plays atonally on junk-shop bought instruments. The music he makes is physically arresting.
Peter Green - Great blues feel. Timing to die for.
Tommy Emmanuel - A technical virtuoso.
Django Reinhardt - Energy, innovation, incredible improviser. Unmatched.
George Benson - Wonderful feel, ouststanding contribution to the devlopment of comping in jazz guitar. Wes Montgomery's natural successor.
Blixa Bargeld - Uses the guitar (and bass) to make sounds nobody else seems to be able to conjure up. The day he left The Bad Seeds I nearly broke down and cried. What feel - what a great communicator of musical truths.

...and there are plenty more...

I believe each guitarist should be valued on their own merits - there aren't any hard and fast rules as to 'what makes a good musician'.
Do they 'speak to you'? That's the only question worth asking IMO.

But the Edge?! No offence, but I still can't believe he got a mention :-\
 
Here is who I like and why:
_____________

Here is who is not great and why:
Van Halen---- Done and gone. After his first two riffs on the first album, boredom took over.

Steve Vai--- See above except can't write a song to save his life.

Satriani--- See above but used to write some good stuff, now just mindless riffs we have heard over, and over, and over.................. again.

Hendrix--- Should have learned how to tune a guitar. Sloppy, sad.

Slash--- None of the above. A waste of equipment. 0 talent. 15 minutes of fame done.

All these guys started out OK but have just slid into mediocraty. Oh well.....
 
For me, a great musician plays exactly what is called for in a song or musical situation, and nothing more. Any musician that can consistanly do that is better than most in my book.
I suppose some element of fame is required to be remembered as "great", but that's a whole different matter.

A
www.aaroncheney.com
 
acorec said:
Here is who I like and why:
_____________

Here is who is not great and why:
Van Halen---- Done and gone. After his first two riffs on the first album, boredom took over.

Steve Vai--- See above except can't write a song to save his life.

Satriani--- See above but used to write some good stuff, now just mindless riffs we have heard over, and over, and over.................. again.

Hendrix--- Should have learned how to tune a guitar. Sloppy, sad.

Slash--- None of the above. A waste of equipment. 0 talent. 15 minutes of fame done.

All these guys started out OK but have just slid into mediocraty. Oh well.....
Click to expand...

Run, you crazy fool!

A
www.aaroncheney.com
 
Codmate said:
The Edge?!
Surely all he did was play arpeggios into a delay pedal?
Yawn.
Edge is top of my 'most boring guitarists of all time' list ;)

But the Edge?! No offence, but I still can't believe he got a mention :-\
Click to expand...

No offense taken--I don't like U2's music either, but that's mostly due to Bono's caterwauling.

Mozart's accompaniment was mostly arpeggios too, so I'm not sure of the point. But then I find Mozart boring, so maybe that's the point. Bach wrote tremendously demanding violin sonatas but preferred to play viola . . .

my point #2 - At a very bad time (Vai, Malmsteen, Roth, etc.) Edge reminded people at that guitar is first a foremost a musical instrument and not an athletic competition. Thus he changed the way the instrument was played WITHOUT inspiring hoards to people to mimic him. Rather ingenious.
 
Codmate said:
Marc Ribot - An innovative approach to the guitar. He often plays atonally on junk-shop bought instruments.
Click to expand...

Come visit! Every guitar player in this town would be your new favorite :D !
 
I,too, and not a U2 fan (almost squeezed a bad pun out of that...), but, I have to say that from an innovation standpoint, Mr. Edge did some things that no other guitarist before or since has done. Sure you can argue that he relies on his delay and other effects, and that without them, hes boring, but aren't the effects part of the instrument?

I could argue (but I won't) that Hendrix is boring if you take away the distortion and wah, but the way he gets the perfect tone out of them is part of his greatness.

That being said, I go for guitarists who can create an identifyable, original sound, and of course is appropriate for the music or band. Speedy solos do nothing for me if they are a rip off of someone else, or don't work with the song. Tony Iommi is great, because he has the skill to probably play anything, but in many songs (early sabbath, anyway), relies almost exclusively on those great evil power chord riffs, with just enough flashy riffs to spice it up and keep the interest.
 
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