how can this guy's budget setup sound so good?

[pianomaestro]

Hi, I'm new to studio recording. I want to record my 6' grand piano in my living room (just for fun), so I bought a $60 Samson mic, a boom, and recorded w/ Audacity. Even after experimenting with 25 different mic positions, the recording wasn't very good.

I ran across some random video on YT that sounded really good, and I was surprised the guy is using a low-end Behringer C1 mic. Here's the vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5JSldncbiA

Can someone explain how he can make the piano sound so good w/ a $50 mic when my comparable Samson sounds so hollow and tinny? And notice how he has the piano lid closed and the C1 is sitting right over the bass strings. He does everything wrong and yet it sounds so good. I'm a bit suspicious actually -- is this legit?

 

[Steenamaroo]

Hi there,
Two things. The c1, as far as I know, isn't end address so he has it pointing across the strings rather than at them.
Also, it sounds stereo to me so I'm guessing he has another one at the other side doing the same thing (symmetrically opposite).

Any use?

 

[pianomaestro]

So you don't think the piano sound quality is a function of editing tricks or such? I'm still pretty shocked that this setup can sound so professional. And it doesn't appear as if his room acoustics are that great. He has blinds over the windows and the piano is right up against the wall. It's like he broke every rule and it still sounds good

Oh the other thing I noticed is, his mouth is 3 inches from the ATR2020 mic with no pop filter. And yet no popping sounds.

 

[Steenamaroo]

So you don't think the piano sound quality is a function of editing tricks or such? I'm still pretty shocked that this setup can sound so professional. And it doesn't appear as if his room acoustics are that great. He has blinds over the windows and the piano is right up against the wall. It's like he broke every rule and it still sounds good

It's hard to say. I'm working on digital piano tracks tonight and my gut did make me wonder if this was digital until I saw the hammers move.
It does sound an awful lot like my Clavinova though, regardless.

Oh the other thing I noticed is, his mouth is 3 inches from the ATR2020 mic with no pop filter. And yet no popping sounds.

Yeah, I did notice that. He's done drums and harmonies and what not though. The vocals could certainly be mimed to look good in the video.

Sorry, I've got no closure for you. lol. Just speculation.
Could you message him and ask? He's got <1000 subs. He could write back.

 

[Mr Clean]

And notice how he has the piano lid closed and the C1 is sitting right over the bass strings.

First and foremost, that video is not live, he's lip-syncing. So the mic placements you see mean nothing as the piano won't be live.

What Samson Mic did you get? USB I guess? Samson's aren't very good, even by the low end standard. I'd take the Behringer over a Samson any day. He's probably using the Behringer C1 into an AI into a DAW. (He's using EZDrummer so he's not using Audacity) Audacity is not designed for recording pro audio. Editing is fine, recording, not so much. Then there is after effects processing which will boost, better, the sounds. Reverb, Compression, EQ, etc.

With the right tools, and not necessarily very expensive ones, you can achieve sounds like that.

 

[jimmys69]

First and foremost, that video is not live, he's lip-syncing. So the mic placements you see mean nothing as the piano won't be live.

What Samson Mic did you get? USB I guess? Samson's aren't very good, even by the low end standard. I'd take the Behringer over a Samson any day. He's probably using the Behringer C1 into an AI into a DAW. (He's using EZDrummer so he's not using Audacity) Audacity is not designed for recording pro audio. Editing is fine, recording, not so much. Then there is after effects processing which will boost, better, the sounds. Reverb, Compression, EQ, etc.

With the right tools, and not necessarily very expensive ones, you can achieve sounds like that.

I will +1 this^^^


That is obviously lip sync'd and not what he used to record it.


The first clue is the piano sound. Second the vocal harmonies. None of these were done in that room you see in the video.

I bet he filmed the video there after he recorded elsewhere with what he actually had laying around.

That should not discourage from trying however.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Kinda adds weight to my digital piano feeling.
If you do PM him, ask if he used a clavinova CLP***.

 

[pianomaestro]

First and foremost, that video is not live, he's lip-syncing. So the mic placements you see mean nothing as the piano won't be live.

What Samson Mic did you get? USB I guess? Samson's aren't very good, even by the low end standard. I'd take the Behringer over a Samson any day. He's probably using the Behringer C1 into an AI into a DAW. (He's using EZDrummer so he's not using Audacity) Audacity is not designed for recording pro audio. Editing is fine, recording, not so much. Then there is after effects processing which will boost, better, the sounds. Reverb, Compression, EQ, etc.

With the right tools, and not necessarily very expensive ones, you can achieve sounds like that.

I have the Samson Meteor USB. I heard many reviews of mics in the $75 range and there wasn't significant difference among them so I chose this, but I guess it's not very good for piano recording. I'm going to get an ATR2020 or AKG 220... that's the most I plan to spend for a mic. For a mixer I will get the Behringer 302USB. What recording software do you recommend? I've tried Traverso and Audacity, and didn't feel one produced better output than the other.

For the piano recording I used Audacity's Noise Removal, High Pass filter, and EQ... it helped a little but the recording was still too hollow and had no depth

 

[jimmys69]

I have the Samson Meteor USB. I heard many reviews of mics in the $75 range and there wasn't significant difference among them so I chose this, but I guess it's not very good for piano recording. I'm going to get an ATR2020 or AKG 220... that's the most I plan to spend for a mic. For a mixer I will get the Behringer 302USB. What recording software do you recommend? I've tried Traverso and Audacity, and didn't feel one produced better output than the other.

For the piano recording I used Audacity's Noise Removal, High Pass filter, and EQ... it helped a little but the recording was still too hollow and had no depth

You are cutting yourself short by limiting your options with programs such as these.

Please read the stickies about recording in the newbie forum.

Actually, read every sticky here. You will learn much more quickly than any of us can tell you directly by informing yourself.


Best to you my friend.

 

[Armistice]

What's your objective? To record yourself playing your piano in your room, or to produce piano music?

The former means learning to record, microphones, AIs, room, mixing etc - it can be a long, expensive road but it's very rewarding.

The latter can be achieved with a MIDI piano and a quality piano VSTi - and you will immediately have better sounding results.

From what you're saying, your budget puts you at the low end of the spectrum. You could struggle to get results you're happy with, which is not to say you shouldn't go there.

I'm pretty sure I could set you up with my Yamaha P80 and Pianoteq, and after an hour of familiarisation with the feel of the keyboard, you could punch out some quality recordings really quickly. Wouldn't be your piano in your room, obviously.

I can't do this, because I'm not a piano player, but a decent player could.

All depends what you're trying to achieve...

Oh, and Audacity's useful, we all have it, but it's not really a recording tool... there are better ways to skin that cat.

 

[pianomaestro]

What's your objective? To record yourself playing your piano in your room, or to produce piano music?

The former means learning to record, microphones, AIs, room, mixing etc - it can be a long, expensive road but it's very rewarding.

The latter can be achieved with a MIDI piano and a quality piano VSTi - and you will immediately have better sounding results.

Well my goal is to make some piano recordings, put them on youtube and send to friends and relatives who don't live locally. And for whoever who else stumbles across them.

I guess nowadays a lot of people "cheat" using VST's huh. Maybe the guy in the video I posted did too because I'm still incredulous about his Behringer producing such clear, deep sound. . It very well may be a cheaper to use a stand-alone VST software rather than to get some nice mics and a good AI...

 

[Armistice]

Well my goal is to make some piano recordings, put them on youtube and send to friends and relatives who don't live locally. And for whoever who else stumbles across them.

I guess nowadays a lot of people "cheat" using VST's huh. Maybe the guy in the video I posted did too because I'm still incredulous about his Behringer producing such clear, deep sound. . It very well may be a cheaper to use a stand-alone VST software rather than to get some nice mics and a good AI...

I never said it was cheap, just quicker. If you don't have a MIDI keyboard that you're happy with for one... Pianoteq and the other quality VSTis aren't cheap either.

I have never recorded a real piano so I have only a theoretical understanding of what's involved, and that would be a couple of decent quality matched SDCs, decent interface (not necessarily expensive), good piano for recording, good room for recording and good player - although I'm sure there are difference of opinions on the mics...

If you have a good piano in a crap recording environment that you, for whatever reason, can't fix, then you may never get what you want because the room will defeat you. So I'm just throwing the VSTi option out there for you to consider. Very easy to lip synch a video using your real piano. Subterfuge like this happens ALL the time in recording and video... no-one will ever know, and no-one will ever care.

 

[DM60]

I have a little upright I like to record, but I use two mics (little AKG 170's about $70 a piece) one on each corner, inside, angled equally. I record on two channels/tracks and pan about midway L/R on each track, EQ as required. If I was recording a grand, I would use three, inside one on each side and one in the middle. Pan the same and get the levels even and maybe even glue it together with a single compressor.

You probably don't need three, that is just how I would do it. But at least two decent mics to get a good recording.

 

[mjbphotos]

Don['t waste your money on the Behringer 302USB. You get what you pay for when it comes to mic preamps and audio interfaces. Read this thread about using mixers for recording.
BTW, recording an acoustic piano well in an untreated (acoustically) room is very difficult.

 

[Steenamaroo]

Well my goal is to make some piano recordings, put them on youtube and send to friends and relatives who don't live locally. And for whoever who else stumbles across them.

I guess nowadays a lot of people "cheat" using VST's huh. Maybe the guy in the video I posted did too because I'm still incredulous about his Behringer producing such clear, deep sound. . It very well may be a cheaper to use a stand-alone VST software rather than to get some nice mics and a good AI...

Piano VSTS are pretty surprising these days.
I'm actually working at a session right now where a guy sends me midi piano and I 'make it sound nice'.
I'm using the Mini Grand that comes with ProTools and, with the right handling, it's pretty impressive!

Putting nice clear vocals over the top would be very easy with modest gear, but the piano....maybe not so much.

 

[Guitargodgt]

You don't get a stereo piano sound from one microphone.

And that sounds like some sort of VST or electric keyboard to me.

There are incredible sounding VST pianos, to be honest this doesn't sound like one of them. It works for what he is doing, but there is something about it that screams meh.

 

[pianomaestro]

I never said it was cheap, just quicker. If you don't have a MIDI keyboard that you're happy with for one... Pianoteq and the other quality VSTis aren't cheap either.

I have never recorded a real piano so I have only a theoretical understanding of what's involved, and that would be a couple of decent quality matched SDCs, decent interface (not necessarily expensive), good piano for recording, good room for recording and good player - although I'm sure there are difference of opinions on the mics...

Pianotec is $140, and a low-end midi keyboard controller is $200. What sound quality could you get from $340 worth of microphones, AI, cables, boom stand, etc? I'm not being sarcastic, I want to know the answer. I suspect the VST would sound better for the price

I know that a $200 88-key controller won't have the weighted touch of a real piano, but (correct me if I'm wrong), you can edit the recording to increase dynamics after the fact right?

 

[Steenamaroo]

I know that a $200 88-key controller won't have the weighted touch of a real piano, but (correct me if I'm wrong), you can edit the recording to increase dynamics after the fact right?

I bet you could find a used keyboard, for around that money, with weighted keys.
But yes, you can manually manipulate velocities after recording.

 

[Steenamaroo]

What do you know...It's a yamaha.

Should have trusted my ears!

 

[Atkron205]

a Grand is a little tricky, be it baby or full. I used 3 mics, one high and low above the sound board above the strings and one under the sound board from the bottom towards the end. the bottom mic caught most of the real low end. I learned this from the sound guy for Ray Stevens. you have to play with the levels and blend them.