High fret or adjustment issue?

[Gear_Junky]

I am finishing a friend's squier strat after shielding and installing a humbucker and i also switched to a lighter gauge (9's), so had to tweak the truss rod a bit and set the intonation.

i am fairly familiar with the standard adjustments, all the parameters seem fine now - there's a nice little gap at 8th fret when string is depressed at 1st and last frets. the actions is fine, too.

but there's a nasty little buzz around the 18th/19th frets - it's actually a buzz at 18th and 19th just sounds like 20 (so either 20 is too high or 19 not high enough, right?). BTW, this only happens on high E string, all others are fine.

or could it be the high E bridge saddle being too low? it doesn't seem too low, but who knows?

this strat was professionally set up over a year ago and as long as we used the same gauge strings, there were no issues (although maybe i didn't notice).

how do i tell that it's definitely a fret height problem and what are some remedies?

Thanks!

 

[Light]

Where's the action set? Measure it at the 12th fret between the top of the fret and the bottom of the string. Measure in 32nds, please. A little 6" metal ruler is best.



Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

 

[muttley600]

how do i tell that it's definitely a fret height problem and what are some remedies

If you have the relief set right and it only buzzes on this fret and on that string you have two options (well three options but you don't want to hear the third option )

The 20th is high, test by using a small straight edge over the high fret to see if it rocks. Use a stanley blade or similar. If so you can raise the saddle and also the action until it stops. Or you can selectively dress the fret. You'll need some care and special tools to do it correctly. A fine FLAT file or stone, in this case a very small one, something to re crown the fret, most of us have the right crowning files, and a selection of polishing gear to polish and shine the frets. You'll also need to protect the fingerboard while your doing it. You can do it with tools you might have to hand but unless you are confident and know what your doing stay away from it. I don't advise it unless you really know what your doing. You need to ONLY attack the spot where the fret is buzzing.

If the fret has risen from the fingerboard and it's a strat then you really need to go with option three. Take it to someone else.

 

[Gear_Junky]

...you can raise the saddle and also the action until it stops...

this actually helped, it seems! i had to raise all the strings (by eye for now) and the buzz seems to be gone. action still manageably low.

i have to get me one of them metal rulers so i can set the action more precisely.

is there a technical explanation to this? I mean why would switching from 10's to 9's cause this?

 

[muttley600]

The stiffer the string the less it's arc of vibration towards the ends. If you look at a stiff heavy string it moves more in the middle than the ends. It still moves at the ends but the material stiffness inhibits it. Take a piece of paper and hold it between your fingers at just one end to mimic a string vibrating. It will flop down right in front of your hand. Do the same with a piece of card it will hold its shape a lot better but still bend as you move it. The cards stiffness makes it harder to move at the fixed point.

Slight changes in string gauge can have a marked effect. It's this behavior that leads to the need for neck relief. The stiffer the strings the less neck relief you need.

In your case you are at the high end of the fretboard and the problem is unlikely to be solved with adjusting the neck relief. The only way is as I suggested. Raise the action or level the frets correctly. Light asked quite rightly what action you have. One very important reason is that people often expect a super fast action and low strings this is hard to achieve especially if you play hard.

 

[CoolCat]

i'm always amazed at you guys who can set these things up so well...

strumming is something that can embarrassingly make the strings buzz, but thats part of setting the guitar up for personal tastes or styles.

i didn't know that about the heavier strings, makes sense too.

the difference of some 9's to 10's is shocking imo, the 9's feel like rubber bands now and the 10's I've really grown to enjoy. The 10's handle the chord strumming etc.. yes, a guitar with no buzzing, a beautiful thing.

....great post, always something to learn with this stuff.


BUZZING shows up?:

change strings

bridge and intonation and a steel ruler is safe, imo.

cranking on the neck- next level, be careful

new nut? but I haven't done one of those yet.

sanding frets....oh no! HIGH RISK OF TRASHING OUT GUITAR

buzzing guitars suck

 

[muttley600]

i didn't know that about the heavier strings, makes sense too.

the difference of some 9's to 10's is shocking imo, the 9's feel like rubber bands now and the 10's I've really grown to enjoy. The 10's handle the chord strumming etc.. yes, a guitar with no buzzing, a beautiful thing.

....

I always encourage people to use the heaviest strings they can. Not just because they find setup easier because it's not really, but because the heavier srings give you much more control over tone and musical dynamics. A standard I setup my instruments as follows, unless asked to do otherwise

Acoustic 12 -53 Phospher/bronze
Archtops 12-53 Flatwound
Electrics 10- 47+ wound third

Thats what I believe will give you best compromise between playability, tone, dynamics, setup and intonation. Yes it is a compromise and YMMV. Getting used to heavier strings is nearly always a good idea.

 

[Gear_Junky]

as i mentioned, raising the action helped.

this is for a 17-year old kid, who's only starting to learn, so i thought 9's would be easy for him AND frankly i thought 9's were what he had. he's on a budget and i'm not buying another set of strings for him, so i had to make this work, besides, these are the fender bullets, i wanna see how they work on the strat.

next time he changes strings i'll encourage him to get 10's or maybe 9's with heavier basses and re-setup it for him.

thanks, everyone!

i actually bought 5 sets of daddario 11's (electric) to get the free Planet Waves strobe tuner (StringsAndBeyond only had that gauge left), so i might try those on my les paul. we'll see

 

[muttley600]

next time he changes strings i'll encourage him to get 10's or maybe 9's with heavier basses and re-setup it for him.

thanks, everyone!

Don't forget your problem was on the high E. So heavier bass is not going to help apart from giving him more dynamic to play with. Just get him used to 10's now while he will still listen to you. In a few years he won't believe a word you say...

 

[Sinister Blade]

Agree with the post about string tension on 9's vs 10's, just check out the back of a D Addario package and look at it from just that standpoint.

But most likely either 20 is starting to raise out of the fret notch or 19 is starting to flatten out due to bends and vibratoing.

DON'T CROWN YOUR GUITAR. If you want the guitar to feel like crap then do a crowning on your frets, I'd personally rather get a new neck then crown the fretboard ever again.

 

[Gear_Junky]

But most likely either 20 is starting to raise out of the fret notch or 19 is starting to flatten out due to bends and vibratoing.

not really, not "yet" on this guitar, more likely a defect, which went unnoticed - this guitar was bought as a "package" against my advice for "only" $250 two years ago. The included Squier amp is a waste of money, as you would imagine.

DON'T CROWN YOUR GUITAR. If you want the guitar to feel like crap then do a crowning on your frets, I'd personally rather get a new neck then crown the fretboard ever again.

This guitar really isn't there yet, it could probably take a fret-filing before it needs a new neck or anything like that.

With these, one is probably better off "trading in" than paying for any major work on it.

 

[muttley600]

Agree with the post about string tension on 9's vs 10's, just check out the back of a D Addario package and look at it from just that standpoint.

But most likely either 20 is starting to raise out of the fret notch or 19 is starting to flatten out due to bends and vibratoing.

DON'T CROWN YOUR GUITAR. If you want the guitar to feel like crap then do a crowning on your frets, I'd personally rather get a new neck then crown the fretboard ever again.

Rubbish on all counts.

It is highly unlikely that the fret has risen and it is very easy to check if it has. Changing string gauge is not going to cause a fret to suddenly work loose. Like wise frets tend to wear evenly unless a player spends a lot of time in one position. Then frets don't tend to wear more than their neighbor. The reason a lighter set of strings will be more likely to buzz is because as I said their is less stiffness in the string. Couple this with the fact that the pull on the truss rod is less so there will be a need to adjust that as well.

"DONT CROWN THE FRETS" What the f**k are you talking about? Every decent guitar you have ever played has had the frets crowned at least once. I assume you have tried doing it? Next time get some one who knows what they are doing to do it for you. Then you can come back and tell us how wrong you are. You can get a new neck everytime your frets need dressing if you want but your wasting your money and a perfectly good neck.