hi hat cymbal recommendation

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walkinbass

New member
First, the disclaimers and basic info..... I don't play drums. I can keep a beat and know a few basic paterns and things to do on the set.... but I don't play very often. I make my bread and butter playing wind instruments and bass.

I have a home studio where I do some composing/arranging, recording, give lessons (wind instruments) and several of the groups that I play with rehearse. Although at these rehearsals we mostly do Jazz (everything from Dixieland to Modern),.... there are also a few ocassions for some R&B, (soft?) rock and various other styles.

I have in my studio a used, older (who knows how old) Pearl drum set that I picked up (cheap) from a neighbor a while back.

Now... the questions....

The hi hat has 16" cymbals. (all of the cymbals on the set are Zildjian)

The drummers that come and play on my set look at the hi hat and shake there head.... roll their eyes.... say "look at this" with a smirk.... and complain about the hi hat....

I have to admit, I agree that the hi hat has a rather "heavy" sound for a hi hat.

Are they (we) too finiky? Has any one ever heard of 16" hi hats before?

What style of music would these have been made for.... or, am I totaly out of the loop and did I end up with someones gerry rig?

and last question.... If I wanted to replace these cymbals, What would you recommend. In looking on the web, I have found a wide variety of hi hats offered out there. Is there a general usage, can't go wrong brand to buy? Or maybe there are ones to stay away from?

Thanks for any input on this matter.
 
i have never heard of hats being any bigger than 15", perhaps what you've got is a couple of 16" crashes.......

DO NOT EVER, EVER, EVER, buy a cymbal you have not seen or heard, two exact same cymbals from the exact same production line can have very different sound qualities.....

second, imho, don't buy new, i have never really liked any of the brand new cymbals i have purchased

finally, regarding the set up you have, i think 14" zildjian new beats would be nicely suited, the are a great all round hat, not too dark, not to bright, not too loud, not to soft..

i use a new beat top and a sabian hh leopard bottom, because i need a little extra volume, but when i was playing jazz i had a pair of new beats.... i don't want you to think i am recommending them just cuz i own 'em, i have been through plenty of hats (meinl, paiste, ufip, sabian, zyn) and i change them constantly in regards to the particular type of music i'm playing, so over all (especially if the other cymbals are old zildjians), i think new beats would suit your needs nicely.
 
Defnitely what the Dr. ordered.

Don't buy cymbals online or over the phone. Walk into a music store with a selection and play whatever they have. Cymbals are so quirky, sometimes you'll find a $100 pair of something or others that sound as good as a pair of $300 Zildjians.

With that said however, I think the best hi-hats are usually Zildjians with Sabian HH coming in a close second. Judging by the type of music you play, it sounds like you don't want anything too heavy or clunky (and those 16s are probably both). Look for something you find musically pleasing.

If you play enough cymbals, you'll find something that sounds good at just about any price range. Good Luck!
 
I agree with the Dr. No. 1, it's not a good idea to buy cymbals you haven't heard (although I did buy my hats on eBay). Second, I was also going to recommend the 14" Zildjian New Beats. They're beautiful hats. I don't have the resources to change hi-hats for different kinds of music I'm working on, but the New Beats are quite versatile.
 
I agree that I've never heard of 16" hats. Even 15"hats are rare. 14" are by far the most common with 13" used often for funk/fusion/jazz.

The 14" Zildian New Beats are inded good cymbals. I like the K-Customs for recording purposes and the Sabian HH are also very good.

Plan on spending about $225-$250 fro a good pair of cymbals.
 
Thanks to all of you for the advice..... It really helps to have un-biased opinions on the matter.

I'll check out the Zildjians at the local Drum shop.

Any thoughts on what to do with the 16"'s? Use one as a crash?, sell the other? Or try to trade it in on the new hi hats?.... hmmm wouldn't hurt to try... I'll ask around.
 
i think it is most likely that the two 16" are crashes, for the matter of trading them in, if you need the cash go for it, if they are oldish, and you like the sound (as hats or crahses) then keep 'em, you'll be hard spent finding another two old zildjians, but all in all its your call....

btw, its common practice for drummers to take in a couple of other cymbals when buying a new one, to compare the sounds and make certain that the new cymbal compliments the others on the set, good luck!!!
 
The normal rule of thumb on trade in value for cymbals is $1 per inch (maybe $2 per inch for upper line gear).

Since you'll probably only get between $32-$64 for both cymbals. why not keep them for extra crashes or mount them inside each other for a "special effect" (like a china cymbal sound).
 
To all who have replied to this thread.... thank you again.

Several very good ideas.... I very much appreciate the excellent and expert information.

But with that said.... I have to say, (recognizing the fact that I am not totaly not knowledgeable about these kinds of things) .... these 16" cymbals just don't look like crashes to me. Unlike the 18" crash sitting next to it, the 16's (hi hats) have a very flat side aspect... kinda like ..... hi hat cymbals. Also, the bell is very small and quite shallow.
Oh well... who knows........ maybe they were someones experiment?..... I wonder if Zildjian has a web site where I inquire further... I might try to do a little more research just for fun.......
 
Here is my recommendation:
The reason why a lot of people don't like hi-hats nowadays is because they have started to make the bottom cymbal weigh more which makes the sound of the hi-hats seem really clunky, at least to me. If I were you, I would try and find people who play drums and have some hi hats they are willing to sell which are older. To me, hi hats actually sound better the more they are played.
 
Hi Hats

Those are definitely crashes.

The only reason I'm going to recommend 14 New Beats is that
many people recommend them, especially if you're a starter
and are not sure what you want. Personally I tried one and
did not like it. It has a hollow sound that doesn't sound crisp
at all. The chic is more of a clanging sound. I suspect the older
New Beats are better. I've heared an old one and it sounds O.K.
Carter Beauford is doing magic with his New Beats.
Try it out and see if you like it.

Having tried many hats I chose
Sabian 14 AAX hats because they are crisp but also have some
power. They're not as lively as the A series Zildjians or AA Sabians
but I like the controlled studio sound it makes.
 
guess what guys, the may just be hats!!!!!!

i picked up an old billy hyde 10" 33 1/3 today and next to his smiling face is what appears to be a set of 16" hi-hats.... at least thats what they look like to me
 

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very interesting!

I am still investigating this issue. Thanks to all for the info and opinions shared so far.

Maybe when Zildjian gets their "cymbal history" web page going, it will provide more information on this question. I just wish they had an email address so I could send them a direct querry on this question.

and .... on top of every thing else, one more interesting turn of events....
I ask every percussionist I run into or play with their opinion on the "is it possible that these 16's could really be high hats?" And low and behold.... yesterday, a local studio drummer said... "yep.... got a set of 16's in the garage myself"... Then again, maybe he too has someones "crash cymbal adaptation".

What we really need is to get someone on this thread that played back in the 40's or 50's to chime in their 2 cents worth!
 
ok, well i've been staring at that damn cover for a wile now and i've decided that those hats are not 16"s (the ones on the cover, not yours w.b.)... you can't tell from the photo, but the hats are the same size as the snare (usually 14") which is smaller than the floor toms (usually 16"), so it may be some type of optical illusion due to the now unorthodox way billy hyde has his kit set up......however they may be 15", i have heard of 15" snares, but lets not get into that......

so walkinbass, what hats did you end up getting? have you got em yet?
 
My guess would be concert band crash cymbals. You know the kind you hold in each hand and hit together. They come is various sizes and would have a flatter bell.
 
zildjian 13 and 14 inch projection hats are good but they are pricey at about 240 for hte 14 inch model.
 
You said old pearl set

You said old pearl set. My father had a leddy & lugwig white pearl set from 1955 that came with 16 inch hi hats. Thick heavy sounding zildjian cymbals.
Came with a 30" bass, 2 -16" toms & a 20" floor and 1 -18 ,1 - huge 24" ride zildjian cymbal. Also a 6" & 10" bongo style drums mounted in the middle between the 2 front toms.
Back in the 50's and 60's drummers played more with brushes than sticks in small clubs. I think that this set was designed with this in mind. (IMHO)
My father used this set playing in a horn band and later small acts with Bert Motley and Roy Clark. I remember seeing Burt Motley standing on his head playing 2 clarinets at once.
Your drummers roll their eyes because they are to young to know and never saw 16 hats before.
If they sound good keep em. You never know when that sound may become popular again. Try em with brushes.
If you want today's sound go get some 14" that the guys recommended.
Good luck with the sound.
John
 
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