Hey Harvey!!!!!!

D

dcptnsdcvd

New member
As far as i've seen in this foum, your king of the hill. everyone brings their hard to answer questions to you.

i want to make PRO quality recordings. and i don;t mean sm57 and D112 pro. i mean the stuff u hear on tool albums, the radio. REAL PRO. not home recording stuff.

i am about to invest in microphones. and i never want to do it ever again in my life. i want the best.

i am recording a large drumset, a 7pc. set with 3 roto-toms and many cymbals. as well as guitar cabinets, bass cabs and vocals.

so my question to you is, whats your favorite microphones for each of these applications?? what the BEST mics you've ever heard or used in your life?

i hope your not too reluctant to give out your secrets, i can imagine someone with your caliber of knowledge might wanna keep his secrets to himself so no one else sounds as good. lol, i wouldn;t blame you if u did tho. (hope you don't, for my sake)

i haven't gotten much satisfactory responce from anyone in this forum, as everyone has their own tastes. when i ask them what the BEST mic is, they all say it's up to you and what you like to hear. well, i haven't got a clue when it comes to that stuff. hence, i am asking you.

so whats your word?? whats the best mic for the above applications? i don;t care what i have to spend.

Mike...
 
Ha, like we just make it up. Harvey will tell you the same thing.
FOr dynamics, you want a few Beyer M88's, 201's, Sennheiser 441's and 421's, and an sm-57 or two and an EV RE20...
Small condensors, I would get Sennheiser MKH series mics, but doubtful you will afford such high quality, so go with Neumann KM series or something similar.
Large dia I would check out a Stephen Paul production when they hit the street, and AKG C12's, ELAM 251, maybe a Neumann tube mic. All depends on taste.
Then, get yourself a pair of Royer ribbons and you are ready to go.
Dont forget an omni or two for good measure, which your high end large dia's will probably handle just fine with the flip of a switch.
I would start with 2 SM-57's, a 441, and a pair of Neumann KM series, and an RE-20 for kick since it will double on many other sources as well. Then an SP mic when they come out and you wont need much more. Ever.
Preamps will then cost you twice as much as the mics did. And these are just as important, if not more so, than the mics themselves. Skimp here, and you skimped period.
 
dcptnsdcvd said:

i hope your not too reluctant to give out your secrets, i can imagine someone with your caliber of knowledge might wanna keep his secrets to himself so no one else sounds as good. lol, i wouldn;t blame you if u did tho. (hope you don't, for my sake)

i haven't gotten much satisfactory responce from anyone in this forum, as everyone has their own tastes. when i ask them what the BEST mic is, they all say it's up to you and what you like to hear. well, i haven't got a clue when it comes to that stuff. hence, i am asking you.
Click to expand...

Finally! Someone with enough charm and charisma to make Harvey abandon his selfish secretive ways and finally come clean. I can hardly wait!

And the nerve of all those people who tried to mislead dpqwntrxzmh (can i buy a vowel here?) by implying that there is no magical single answer to his question. How dare they inconvenience him by asking things like what applications he has in mind, and for what style of music. What a bunch of crap! Hopefully Harvey will give up his well-guarded secrets and then we can all just retire from this bulletin board forever.
 
Re: Re: Hey Harvey!!!!!!

littledog said:
Hopefully Harvey will give up his well-guarded secrets and then we can all just retire from this bulletin board forever.
Click to expand...

I'll give an amen to that.
 
Dont worry about it....I dont consider it a full day until I have offended someone here......

Oh, and Harvy isnt just king of the hill here in this forum, but out in the big bad pro world too.....Do a search on his name in google some time.....
 
but, with such an...hmm, "unresearched" question thrown out there...

what are the odds that you have an inkling of the skills needed to make a "pro" recording - much less at home?

hopefully you'll be supplying your own mics and having someone else engineer/mix it for you, if that's what you want....yet think that Harvey or anyone could tell you the "Best" mics period.

tubedude threw some good names out there for you though. I'll second his opinions.
 
This question comes up over and over again on every recording forum I've ever visited. The answer remains the same: "It depends.".

Ok, so what's that mean? Depends on what? It depends on what's best for the song. Here are some examples:

Bruce Sweiden wanted a different sound for one of Michael Jackson's songs, so he used a Shure SM-7 dynamic mic instead of one of the multi $K mics in his mic locker. The song was "Thriller" and it sold about 75,000,000 albums. You can pick up a Shure SM-7 used for around 250 to 350 bucks.

Carly Simon had just finished an album and did a special show in Grand Central Station in NY to introduce some of the songs from the album. Instead of the high dollar Neumann mic she used in the studio, she sang thru a new Shure Beta 58. When they heard the sound on one song, they actually went back into the studio and recut the track, using the Shure for the main vocals.

I've miked acoustic guitars with everything from a new $35 Behringer ECM8000 to a 50 year old $3,500 RCA 44BX. Which was "best"? They both were, for the particular songs I used them on.

So does this mean a Shure or Behringer is better than an RCA or a Neumann? In some cases, yes, but as I said, "It depends".

As an engineer, you hafta keep your ears and options open. Sometimes, the mic you THINK will work best, won't. But if you blindly commit to the high dollar mics every time, you may be doing the song an injustice.

Maybe that's the biggest difference between pros and home recordists: a larger mic selection, and the experience to know when to use a mic that might not be the obvious choice. Having a good room, and the best chain to run the mic into doesn't hurt either.

Sometimes the placement of the mic can be more important than the mic choice.

But, just as sometimes the best choice is a low dollar mic, sometimes the only correct choice is a $15,000 mic.

As I said, "It depends". You may find that a low cost mic works best for you on "certain" songs, but a high dollar mic may be the only way to get acceptable results on other songs.
 
despite my feeling like shit for sounding so offensive, and the above member's probable loss of general respect due to this post, i'll still ask...

what is so crucial about a mic pre?? it;s an amplifier, no?
thats all i've ever known about mic pre's. they provide power to mics that need it. like an ac adaptor for a phantom power'ed mic. so if theres more to it than that, what am i missing?

and, i don;t know if your farmiliar with all-in-one recording consoles, but i have a Roland VS2480. it's just about the most top of the line all-in-one console that roland makes and has gotten nothing but awesome critique, AS FAR AS I KNOW (i'll bet i'm wrong).
doesn;t this thing have it's own mic pre's??? it provides phantom power, it has trim knobs for every input, and it would seem to me that it would have it's own mic pre's for each XLR input, of which it has 8. it costed enough for me to think it should have mic pre's, and good ones too.
and is it the mic pre's that are making things like the SM57 and stuff like that sound good? if not, what are some things i can do, at the roland, to make my mic's perform better??
i'm using oktava mk319's (2) and an akg c1000s, along with various "general" mics. the senn's you get in 3 packs at sam ash.
Mike...
 
Not really a loss of respect, but you are putting yourself in your place. You really don't have the knowledge to make a professional recording because you don't even have the knowledge of what the components are to make that. But neither did the pros at one point in time. using your pres, mics and all-in-one recorder you will be able to make significantly better recordings by 1)tuning your drums 2)intonating your guitars 3)Use proper settings when setting up a mic to record. ie set the fader to unity, then apply trim 4)Mic positioning.

After you get to the point where you can no longer make a significant change to your sound through any of those. Then you can start getting better mics and standalone pres. Then you can start triggering your drums to get the sound that Tool does. Basically the sky is the limit. But you need a foundation to build on.
 
dcptnsdcvd said:
despite my feeling like shit for sounding so offensive, and the above member's probable loss of general respect due to this post, i'll still ask...
Well, don't dwell on it too much. Most appologies, if graciously delivered, are graciously accecpted. ;)
Many people here can help you out, it's usually not necessary to "call out" one person.

what is so crucial about a mic pre?? it;s an amplifier, no?
thats all i've ever known about mic pre's. they provide power to mics that need it. like an ac adaptor for a phantom power'ed mic. so if theres more to it than that, what am i missing?
It's an amplifier, yes.
Let me offer an analogie:
You like beer?
Well then, you got your generic "beer" and you got your domestic brands, there's also beer from Germany, Holland, Canada, and many other places. Aside from that you have lagers, ales, stouts, ambers, and premiums.
Each one of those has a distinct flavour, don't you think?
And your choice may depend on the situation you are in, right? Be it social, romantic, or even alone.

Well, pre-amps are kinda like that. Some are flavourful, some are bland, and some just hit the spot! While still others, I wouldn't be caught dead serving up. :)

and, i don;t know if your farmiliar with all-in-one recording consoles, but i have a Roland VS2480. it's just about the most top of the line all-in-one console that roland makes and has gotten nothing but awesome critique, AS FAR AS I KNOW (i'll bet i'm wrong).
I, myself, am not familiar with it. I'm sure its a fine piece of equipment, that will deliver very good results.

doesn;t this thing have it's own mic pre's??? it provides phantom power, it has trim knobs for every input, and it would seem to me that it would have it's own mic pre's for each XLR input, of which it has 8.
Then yeah, it has mic-pre's. But are they of the "generic beer" flavour, or are they "Dutch Amber"? My guess would be they are closer to the generic variety.

it costed enough for me to think it should have mic pre's, and good ones too.
Cost, and quality, are not always related. We'd like to think they are, but its not always true. One really nice mic pre alone could cost well over the $3500 you probably paid for that. But of course, you don't HAVE to spend that much on a mic pre to get very good results.

and is it the mic pre's that are making things like the SM57 and stuff like that sound good?
Partly. I'd like to think that knowledge and skill on the engineer's part has a lot to do with it, not to mention a stellar performance from the artist.

if not, what are some things i can do, at the roland, to make my mic's perform better??
You can start by reading "The Big Thread" on this site. (someone else can give you a link, I don't have it here at work)
You can learn your equipment like the back of your hand. You can experiment, and experiment, using a critical ear to listen to the nuances in each take you do. You can study microphone placement techniques, and mic application theory. And last, but by no means least, ask for help when you need to, and be humble when its given.

i'm using oktava mk319's (2) and an akg c1000s, along with various "general" mics. the senn's you get in 3 packs at sam ash.
Mike...
Click to expand...
;)
 
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dcptnsdcvd said:
despite my feeling like shit for sounding so offensive, and the above member's probable loss of general respect due to this post, i'll still ask...
Click to expand...

nope.....everybody has to start some where...Just roll with it and move on.
what is so crucial about a mic pre?? it;s an amplifier, no?
thats all i've ever known about mic pre's. they provide power to mics that need it. like an ac adaptor for a phantom power'ed mic. so if theres more to it than that, what am i missing?

and, i don;t know if your farmiliar with all-in-one recording consoles, but i have a Roland VS2480. it's just about the most top of the line all-in-one console that roland makes and has gotten nothing but awesome critique, AS FAR AS I KNOW (i'll bet i'm wrong).
doesn;t this thing have it's own mic pre's??? it provides phantom power, it has trim knobs for every input, and it would seem to me that it would have it's own mic pre's for each XLR input, of which it has 8. it costed enough for me to think it should have mic pre's, and good ones too.
Click to expand...
Mic pre's (short for pre-amplifier) can make or break the sound, and some of them provide phantom power as well. Your roland has its own pre's, and I assume they are ok, but there are better ones out there. Not to mention, it just looks more impressive if you have an external pre, especially if it says made in england on it. Great preamps cost money to build, and the manufacturer of an all in one recorder is not gonna spend the money to put a world class preamp on every single channel..Nobody could afford to buy it if they did.
and is it the mic pre's that are making things like the SM57 and stuff like that sound good? if not, what are some things i can do, at the roland, to make my mic's perform better??
Click to expand...
positioning, eq, or lack of eq really, type of cable used, all make a differance. If you are gonna mic and acoustic gtr say, do a search on the boards here and learn from how other people have done it, and how the dieties of microphones, such as Harvy suggest...that'll give you a starting point, and experiment on it from there.

The really cool thing about having your own studio is you take as long as you want to dick around with stuff till you learn what works for you.
 
dear deceptionsdeceived:

we love ya' man! really we do!

keep asking your questions, we'll keep answering. just don't hold it against us if we have a little fun in the process, or at least try to help you refine your quest.

remember: this stuff is all new to you, but might be the 123rd time some of us have answered the same question.

you'll note, that if you reread some of your own posts, there was "just a hint" of sarcastic/smart-ass vibe. which is totally cool, because in this very spot you'll find one of the biggest collection of sarcastic smart-asses since George Carlin dined alone. So it's not unusual that some of us rose to the "bait". But don't worry, if you can take it as well as dish it out around here, you'll get along just fine! ;)
 
>>if not, what are some things i can do, at the roland, to make my mic's perform better??
You can start by reading "The Big Thread" on this site. (someone else can give you a link, I don't have it here at work)<<


http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=27030

There's the link to "The Big Thread". Read it-you'll know more about everything when you're done. In fact, put a bunch of paper in your printer and print it out, put it in a 3-ring binder, and keep it in your studio-it's a great reference source.
 
Of course we are all self rightous smart asses. If we werent, we would have social lives, real friends, and no time to screw around on this board taking out our bitterness and hostillaty because, Damnit, we were supposed to be rocks stars by now.....What the hell happened....



I gave up college to be a rock star.....just because I didnt have any talent, that shouldnt have held me back...I mean, look at some of the bands out there....

Damn...

now I'm depressed...
 
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