Help with recording choir - micing

S

savageblues

New member
Hi Folks, could use some help with mic selection and technique.

I'm going to be recording a 45 member ladies barbershop choir (Sweet Adelines) later this month. They have a 3 level riser with a semi-circular radius, and it will be done in a large dining hall with high ceilings. Its not a theater designed for sound.

The recording will be used by the chorus hopefully for promotion and sales, but also will be broadcast later this summer at the Toronto Blue Jays game at Rogers Centre (and on TV) when they sing the opening Oh Canada.

I have a jecklin disk set-up for my pair of Behringer ECM8000's, and one MXL V67 (i know, brutally cheap set up). My initial thinking was just position the jecklin disk somewhere around the focal point of the chorus by ear and possibly set up the V67 at the same place faced centre.

However, maybe I should rent or acquire a decent pair of mics for this recording since I want my best chance for a successful recording. There's a sound company I could probably rent some commonly available mics from (eg. they have some AKG414's, some Sure SDC pairs for drum overheads, maybe some other stuff, etc).

What mic type and techniques can you suggest for this recording?

Thanks in advance.
 
rent/borrow/buy a pair of small condensors like MXL 603/604 and set them on a T-bar on a boom stand as high as you easily can. Point them in a X pattern with the tips of the mics nearly touching, one mic pointed to one side of the group, the other to the other. Angle the whole thing down a little toward the group. Record one mic to left channel the other to right channel. It will come out great and everyone will be happy.
 
hi ,
it is fairly had to get any sort of recording in a bad hall . however I have had great success by laying PZM ( boundary microphones ) flat on floor facing the choir . They pretty mush don't give a shit about acoustics of a room or building ....used in a lot of recording , TV , radio studios ....

I have also just laid 3 omni pencil condensers flat on hard surface floor facing the choir and had great success.............

I have found this to be way way way better than any attempt at XY stereo or spaced pairs or whatever ........

Try your setup.......it will work unless the reverberation and echo destroy your sound.......then try throwing them on the floor ..........

test this first......turn on your tV set ...throw your mics on the floor ....if you have carpet , find some hard surface and lay down the mics .....you will see how clear the reproduction is without any annoying sound reverberation ...

Point to follow....very thin piece of foam under mic to stop any vibration from floor....get the capsule as close to floor a possible ....5mm or less...bit of tape to secure them.......
 
You could go with daddy macs setup ....proven setup that works great...it will capture the true essence of the choir in the hall....reverberation and all .....weather it is to much only time will tell......if the reverb is smearing things to much ......get them microphones as close as possable , reducing the hall sound and capturing more choir.............distance form choir will be the make of break.
 
hi ,
it is fairly had to get any sort of recording in a bad hall . however I have had great success by laying PZM ( boundary microphones ) flat on floor facing the choir . They pretty mush don't give a shit about acoustics of a room or building ....used in a lot of recording , TV , radio studios ....

I have also just laid 3 omni pencil condensers flat on hard surface floor facing the choir and had great success.............

I have found this to be way way way better than any attempt at XY stereo or spaced pairs or whatever ........

Try your setup.......it will work unless the reverberation and echo destroy your sound.......then try throwing them on the floor ..........

test this first......turn on your tV set ...throw your mics on the floor ....if you have carpet , find some hard surface and lay down the mics .....you will see how clear the reproduction is without any annoying sound reverberation ...

Point to follow....very thin piece of foam under mic to stop any vibration from floor....get the capsule as close to floor a possible ....5mm or less...bit of tape to secure them.......
 
Thanks guys for your responses. I think I will try to get a decent pair of SDCs with the XY setup described.

Bigmark, I do have a pair of PZM's but have never heard of that method, or of the omni's placed on the floor either. I have enough channels that I can try that method simultaneously, but I must admit I have my doubts.

All in all, heres hoping the room doesnt sound too bad...that will make things easier for me.

Thanks again.
 
I'm not a huge fan of XY. It might work here, but I think that using JUST a coincident pair will sound a bit 2-dimensional.

I like the Jecklin disc, but it sounds like you may have some difficulty getting the right balance between capturing the whole ensemble evenly without getting bad room effects.

In your situation, you may have to try a couple of things. The closer to the ensemble, the more you can use coincident methods like XY - but with 45 people, you will have to back up some. You will benefit from having some space between the mics for added depth.

I'd try the Jecklin if you can, but if that does not work you can pull the mics apart and get them closer to the group in a normal spaced-pair (or AB) method. You can keep them about 2 feet apart or so, but without the disc you can get closer to the source and dial out some of the room. Too close with the disc results in a wacky too-wide image as you probably know.

Too bad you don't have a figure 8. Mid-Side is great for dealing with bad rooms - but it does suffer some of the same issues as XY. Flanking a MS pair with spaced omnis would be ideal.

If you do get some SDC's, try ORTF or another near-coincident method.

To sum: Spaced omnis or near-coincident cardioids, IMO.
 
Thanks Guys for the advice, tonights the night.

I picked up one pair of AKG C535's and one pair of AKG C430's (and I still have the ECM8000s).

I guess I'll try ORTF with the 535's and a spaced pair with the ECM8000s. I want to keep it to two pairs of mics. Probably will not use the 430s.

Does the 3:1 rule apply with a spaced pair of omnis on a large source like a choir (im trying to imagine how I am going to acheive that). Generally thinking of spacing them say 4-5 feet apart maybe 6 ft back from the choir, at the height of the upper row and pointed towards the upper row.

Any last minute suggestions for me?

Cheers.
 
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