help narrow gigging mic choices

R

Roger Mac

New member
Do I win a prize for being the 1 millionth person to ask this question? :)

The details:
Trying to narrow the search for a gigging/stage/club mic.
- female lead vocalist, alto-soprano range
- Blues/R&B/Rock/more blues
- belting and low volume (mostly belt)
- $250-$400 roughly

The suspects:
We are considering mostly condenser but won't rule out dynamic.
Recommended by local pro shop...
- Audio-Technica 3300
- Sennheiser 840 or 850
others...
- Audix - Om5/6
- Shure Beta 87A
- ?

She is the talent (pro-level), I'm the technical (intermediate level). I'll try to narrow the search to two, she'll decide. (The less buttons on the mic to avoid "handling errors" the better.)
Thanks.
 
If there is any flexibility in the budget you may also want to consider the Neumann KMS105. It is a supercardioid condenser mic designed for stage use. There are several artists using it (e.g. Norah Jones, Tony Bennett, Sting, the White Stripes and Sarah McLachlan) and it definitely delivers that smooth Neumann sound. I read that Tony Bennett even used it in the studio for a recent CD. Don't know if it would work for your singer's voice but it is defintely a very nice mic. I loved the Shure Beta 87A I was using before I heard the KMS105. But the KMS105 is even better.

There are lots of comments about the KMS105 available on line if you do a search but here is one page to get you started. http://mixonline.com/news/audio_grammy_gear_artists/

Good Luck!
 
Last edited:
reply - wired/wireless

mshilarious said:
Wired or wireless?
Click to expand...

At this price range ($250 to $400-ish) we are looking at wired.

Another post mentioned a Neuman but I'm not sure if that is a handheld, which we are looking for (typical working the stage/crowd stuff) so it has to be tough. That's one reason why we aren't going crazy with the cost. It will get roughed around a bit.

Thanks guys.
 
The KMS is a handheld, and a great sounding mic.

If she is good, and you are spending that kind of dough, it's worth auditioning all the top choices.

Beware, the 105 can be a bit tricky with loud bands and low ceilings.

Beta 87
Audix VM10
AT 40 series

are all good, as well.
 
The neumann KMS105 is definately a handheld. It is a little tricky in some situations, but it definately sounds a step up from all the others listed. Actually, any handheld condensor can be really tricky in your typical club type scenarios. I have however worked with many of the neumanns in tricky situations and got along just fine. If I were you and could not afford the Neumann, I would actually have a look at the beta 57a as well. It is a very solid and versatile handheld vocal mic.
 
xstatic said:
The neumann KMS105 is definately a handheld. It is a little tricky in some situations, but it definately sounds a step up from all the others listed. Actually, any handheld condensor can be really tricky in your typical club type scenarios. I have however worked with many of the neumanns in tricky situations and got along just fine. If I were you and could not afford the Neumann, I would actually have a look at the beta 57a as well. It is a very solid and versatile handheld vocal mic.
Click to expand...

I like the Beta 57 and Beyer M69 about the same--the Shure is cheaper and easier to find. I don't let the talent have my M88 ;)
 
follow up - condenser/phantom

Hey guys. Thanks for your suggestions, they are greatly appreciated.

Jennifers currently has a 8+ year old Shure Beta 58A. She would probably be happy with the same. I thought I'd check out what else is out there. I know the 58A is popular but I'm not sure where it places on the quality scale compared to others.

Another question.
The home studio has a Rhode K2 into an FMR RNP. The K2 comes with it's own power supply. If I recall, the FMR has a switch for phantom on/off (maybe this is true of all pre-amps?).

The handheld condenser mics require phantom. Do they typically rely on the pre-amp or do they come with their own power? (probably depends on brand/quality level?)
Is there any advantage to having a separate power supply? If so, is there any reason why the K2 power box couldn't/shouldn't be used with another brand mic?

These are probably dumb-a$$ questions but I'm... "detail oriented" when it comes to sound quality and equipment damage/safety. :)
 
The Rode K2 is a Tube mic. Its power requirements are different than a "non-tube" condenser mic. Most mic pre-amps (like the RNP or those found in most mixers - all except the absolute cheapest) will have the Phantom voltage required to power a condenser mic. They won't, however, power a "tube" mic.
 
The only mic less than $400 that approaches the Beyerdynamic M88, in my opinion, is the Electrovoice 367 N/D. My band has two female singers, and they both love this mic. In fact, I love it too, but I'm stickin' with my M88.

High output, sturdy construction, nice range, wonderful freq-response curve, tight pattern for controlling feedback. Leaves the Beta 58 in the dust.

Next best for female vocals IMO is the Sennheiser 431.
 
K2 tube/condenser/phantom

Whoops, my mistake, you are correct. (K2 = tube, not condenser). :) Heh, heh, guess I should have remembered that since I bought the K2. It's been a while. :)

Alright then, that handles the condenser/phantom power issue. Much appreciated.

I greatly appreciate the combined experience suggesting stage/handheld lead vocal mics. Any other suggestions?
 
The best handheld condensers for stage application (and usable in the studio too) are the previously mentioned Neumann KMS105, Audix VX-10 and Audio Technica AE5400. The AT is the least expensive of this group. All are very nice mics. I have a couple of the Audix mics and the prior version of the AT mic (AT-4054). The AT mic uses the same capsule as the AT-4050 studio mic, but in cardioid only. All require phantom power through the board/preamp (no separate power supply necessary as none are tube mics. All show up on e-bay from time to time with the Neumann being the most expensive, followed by the Audix, followed by the AT. You should be able to easily pick up the Audix or the AT within your price range. The Neumann would likely be just over your range unless you get lucky. I've picked up the Audix mics for from $200-350 each on e-bay. I bought an new AE5400 from my local dealer for a friend for $300. E-bay should be less.

If you can find an AT-4054 or AT-4055 on e-bay, it could be a relative bargain. They go for @$150 or so and are great mics. the AT4054 is rolled off and the AT-4055 is not. The AE5400 has a roll off switch.

They each have their own sound and characteristics so you would need to try them to see what you were comfortable with.

I've heard good things about the Sennheiser 865, but haven't used one.

Below this level of mic, there are lots of choices. In addition to the aforementioned Shure mics, the Beyer M88, Sennheiser MD441 (the Stevie Nicks mic), and Audix OM6 are all good dynamic performing mics. The MD441 is a bit more delicate, so you might not want that one unless you can find an MD541 Black Fire which is the touring version. AKG C535eb is a good general purpose condenser (and about the only AKG mic that I like). You can find them on e-bay for @$160 or so.
 
Opinions vary. Some like the Audix better than the Neumann as a stage mic. I have one Neumann (a KM84i) and its great on some things and other similar type mics that I have (Josephson C42 and AT-4053) are better on others. Best thing to do is try out what you can and see what sounds best for you.
 
Ther is some truth to that statement. However, I have yet to meet one of those people. I always hear about all these other mics. In fact, occasionally some band will come through that uses one. There seem to be two things in common though. First, it is very common for bands to have endorsements and in return use certain mics. Just because the band is endorsed by a company, that does not mean that they like the mics. Many an engineer has complained about the kind of mics they have to use due to an endorsement. The one thing that I have noticed is that this has never been the case with Shure.

The second theing that I have seen a lot of is bands trying out other mics on tour because they found one that sounds better. The funny thing is that the next time they come back through they tend to be back to other mics. It ends up being a decision based on several factors and thaths why they switched back.

The bottom line is that sometimes there are standards for a real reason. Shure is definately the industry standard when it comes tomicrophones for live use. I would be willing to bet that of all of the live vocal mics that Shure has more than all the other companies combined out on shows every year. There really is a reason for this:) Neumann has now quickly become the new standard as far as hand held vocal condensors goes. I was amazed at how quickly this product affected the market. No other mic that I can think of has hit the market so quickly.

One last thing that I actually saw in common with many touring engineers is the fact that they USED to use Audix. A lot of people jumped on the Audix train when they frist came out. As it turns out the Audix OM series has real durability issues. They don't actually "break", but they seem to change their sound and pattern too easily.

Sorry for the long winded post, but I felt the whole wasnecessary to validate what I was trying to say concerning Shure, Neumann, and Audix and other manufacturers.
 
narrowing down

Hmm, I'm getting the impression that the Neumann is the top choice. :) Not surprising. I'm going to try to see if I can set up a "demo" session with a very short list at a local pro shop. Not sure if they'll let us do that.

Ok, the Neumann is definitely on the wish list. A lot of internet stuff popping up with this mic and jazz. I can see that. We don't "need" quite that accurate but it could be used. We've got the K2 at home so studio is covered.

For this app think:
Blues - originals plus Etta James, early Tina Turner, BB King, Ray Charles, Sam Cook, Fabulous Thunderbirds, Joss Stone.
R&B - Aguilera, Mariah, etc.
Rock - originals plus Queen, Aerosmith, Pink, Journey
heck, even some Christian/Pop - Rachael Lampa, Stacie Orrico

I think I'm leaning towards the Audio Technica AE series (3300 for price), maybe the Beyer M88 since it keeps poping up. Would love to try the Neumann but that may be too disappointing if price ended up crossing it off the list (for now). The gigs start in 2 weeks (earlier then planned but they couldn't refuse), no time to save $ and I want Jennifer to get some time with it before going live.

Still willing to hear options/opinions. Anyone?
 
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