hey, i have deicided that i want to start recording i dont want anything real great but what i have now is now good. Right now i have asound sound card (came with comp), what i do to record is go from the headphone jack on my guitar amp into the mic input on my sound card. The quality is real bad. I read that pluging into the line in is a better choice, but for me it seems worse. Do i need a better sound card, a mixer? Or am i just doing this all wrong? Any sugestions would be great. Thanks, Andrew.
help geting started...
- Thread starter iravage
- Start date
"hey, i have deicided that i want to start recording i dont want anything real great"
Well...first off, I would try skipping the amp all together and plugging directly into the line-in on your sound card. You probably need an adapter from 1/4" to 1/8". Unless your amp has a dedicated line-out, you probably don't want to run direct from the amp (i.e. from your headphone jack). So either you have to mic the amp (no mic listed in your setup) or run direct into the computer. This still wont provide particularly stellar sound, and it will be in mono...but it will probably still be better sound.
Beyond that, any other additions or upgrades to your setup will help the sound. I don't know exactly what soundcard came with your comp, but you could probably stand to upgrade it. A good 16 bit card (like a good SB) is fairly functional, though not the greatest option. You could go in for a better 24 bit card with more ins/outs that was designed for computer based recording. Buying a decent mic or two and the attendant other stuff could probably help your sound. A mixer is never a bad thing to have, but realize that without mics (and a mic-pre, built in or not) you're not going to be able to record much more than you would running direct into your sound-card.
Try going the direct route and see if you like the results. I'm going off the assumption that all you want to do right now is record "not that great" quality guitar tracks. If your wants/needs exceed that, then you would be well put to get any/all of a mixer/mics/sound card/better instruments/monitors/every other expensive gadget on the planet.
(Somebody make sure I'm not way off base here)
Spoon
Well...first off, I would try skipping the amp all together and plugging directly into the line-in on your sound card. You probably need an adapter from 1/4" to 1/8". Unless your amp has a dedicated line-out, you probably don't want to run direct from the amp (i.e. from your headphone jack). So either you have to mic the amp (no mic listed in your setup) or run direct into the computer. This still wont provide particularly stellar sound, and it will be in mono...but it will probably still be better sound.
Beyond that, any other additions or upgrades to your setup will help the sound. I don't know exactly what soundcard came with your comp, but you could probably stand to upgrade it. A good 16 bit card (like a good SB) is fairly functional, though not the greatest option. You could go in for a better 24 bit card with more ins/outs that was designed for computer based recording. Buying a decent mic or two and the attendant other stuff could probably help your sound. A mixer is never a bad thing to have, but realize that without mics (and a mic-pre, built in or not) you're not going to be able to record much more than you would running direct into your sound-card.
Try going the direct route and see if you like the results. I'm going off the assumption that all you want to do right now is record "not that great" quality guitar tracks. If your wants/needs exceed that, then you would be well put to get any/all of a mixer/mics/sound card/better instruments/monitors/every other expensive gadget on the planet.
(Somebody make sure I'm not way off base here)
Spoon
check the recording source
iravage --
First thing to check is that the recording source is set to line-in and not mic-in. Go to:
Start -- Programs --
Accessories -- Entertainment -- Volume Control
Or whatever is similar on your machine. Alternately, you can get there by opening the little speaker in the lower right hand corner where you would normally adjust the volume. If you have a separate mixer program that came with your soundcard you can use that as well.
Go to the file menu and select "properties" Change from "playback volume" to "recording volume" and hit OK
Then, make sure the box under Line-in is selected instead of mic. You may have to make sure line-in is selected to be displayed in the preferences screen. You can also check the line-in volume level here in case it is too quiet or is clipping.
Then, open whatever program you are using to record, make sure the recording source is set to line-in, check the levels to make sure they look good, and record away.
If this doesn't work, then you may have a problem with the line-in jack itself. I replaced a sound-card a couple months ago because the line-in jack went out completely.
If this doesn't work, or you can't figure out my bumbling instructions, let me know.
Spoon
iravage --
First thing to check is that the recording source is set to line-in and not mic-in. Go to:
Start -- Programs --
Accessories -- Entertainment -- Volume Control
Or whatever is similar on your machine. Alternately, you can get there by opening the little speaker in the lower right hand corner where you would normally adjust the volume. If you have a separate mixer program that came with your soundcard you can use that as well.
Go to the file menu and select "properties" Change from "playback volume" to "recording volume" and hit OK
Then, make sure the box under Line-in is selected instead of mic. You may have to make sure line-in is selected to be displayed in the preferences screen. You can also check the line-in volume level here in case it is too quiet or is clipping.
Then, open whatever program you are using to record, make sure the recording source is set to line-in, check the levels to make sure they look good, and record away.
If this doesn't work, then you may have a problem with the line-in jack itself. I replaced a sound-card a couple months ago because the line-in jack went out completely.
If this doesn't work, or you can't figure out my bumbling instructions, let me know.
Spoon
regebro -- It works, give it a try. Some soundcards may not do as well with this, but I know an SB Live takes a non-amplified signal just from from an electric or an A/E. It is prone to being somewhat quiet, and it is obviously in mono, but for "not too great" sound it works fine. Obviously if he wants better sound I'd go the mic route as well...but lacking that...
Spoon
Spoon
AlChuck
Well-known member
The mic in of a cheap soundcard goes into a preamp but it's pretty pitiful and you won't get a very pleasant sound by plugging a guitar signal into it. It's so bad it makes you not feel like playing.
Some kind of external preamp is the only way to go, really. There are basically two avenues:
(1) A guitar preamp/processor of some sort. This includes most modern amps, which often have a Line Out from the preamp section. Then there are boxes like those Digitech and ART rack-mounted guitar effects boxes, and floor pedals like the newer ART and Digitech and Korg and Zoom. These typically have line-level outs and you can get a pretty decent sound from them, certainly when compared to the soundcard's mic pre. Finally, these days there are many devices available that do some sort of sophisticated software "modeling" of the sound of a great amp miked well (the fabled POD, the Johnson J-Station, the Yamaha DG-Stomp, and others). Some people hate them, some people love them. The advantages to this approach are that you can get a very good to excellent sound without all the effort needed to fiddle with mic placement in front of an amp, and without the sound pressure levels you typically need to achieve to get the amp voicing in its happy zone -- a great thing when you live in a small place where loud sound can mean troubles with the neighbors or the family. Prices range from maybe around $100 to over $1000, with many great choices in the sub-$500 range.
(2) The traditional mic-pointed-at-the-speaker. This requires a decent amp, a decent mic, and some kind of preamp for the microphone. Assuming that you already have an amp you are happy with, the general wisdom is that a Shure SM-57 pointed at the speaker cone (recommended angles and distances vary somewhat), and preamped through a mixer to bring the signal to line level, is the way to go. The advantages are that you can truly capture something like the "real sound" of a great amp -- ain't no way no weenie software modeler can ever match the ultimate zenith of sonic perfection offered by this approach, dude
. Prices -- an SM-57 goes for about $80, and you can get a small ART Tube MP preamp for about $100, or a small Behringer mixer with a few mic preamps for between $100 and $200 depending on the model. Most people here will swear by Mackie mixers, which are a bit more expensive. There are also a lot of preamps available, at all price points, with many very good ones in the under $500 range. Oh, and don't forget a decent mic stand to hold that puppy in the right spot once you find it...
Some kind of external preamp is the only way to go, really. There are basically two avenues:
(1) A guitar preamp/processor of some sort. This includes most modern amps, which often have a Line Out from the preamp section. Then there are boxes like those Digitech and ART rack-mounted guitar effects boxes, and floor pedals like the newer ART and Digitech and Korg and Zoom. These typically have line-level outs and you can get a pretty decent sound from them, certainly when compared to the soundcard's mic pre. Finally, these days there are many devices available that do some sort of sophisticated software "modeling" of the sound of a great amp miked well (the fabled POD, the Johnson J-Station, the Yamaha DG-Stomp, and others). Some people hate them, some people love them. The advantages to this approach are that you can get a very good to excellent sound without all the effort needed to fiddle with mic placement in front of an amp, and without the sound pressure levels you typically need to achieve to get the amp voicing in its happy zone -- a great thing when you live in a small place where loud sound can mean troubles with the neighbors or the family. Prices range from maybe around $100 to over $1000, with many great choices in the sub-$500 range.
(2) The traditional mic-pointed-at-the-speaker. This requires a decent amp, a decent mic, and some kind of preamp for the microphone. Assuming that you already have an amp you are happy with, the general wisdom is that a Shure SM-57 pointed at the speaker cone (recommended angles and distances vary somewhat), and preamped through a mixer to bring the signal to line level, is the way to go. The advantages are that you can truly capture something like the "real sound" of a great amp -- ain't no way no weenie software modeler can ever match the ultimate zenith of sonic perfection offered by this approach, dude
. Prices -- an SM-57 goes for about $80, and you can get a small ART Tube MP preamp for about $100, or a small Behringer mixer with a few mic preamps for between $100 and $200 depending on the model. Most people here will swear by Mackie mixers, which are a bit more expensive. There are also a lot of preamps available, at all price points, with many very good ones in the under $500 range. Oh, and don't forget a decent mic stand to hold that puppy in the right spot once you find it...hmmm .... you should be able to get a signal from the line in ... it may not be the strongest signal and may not be pretty, but you should get something.
Maybe you have it muted in your mixing software?
If you plug your guitar into the mic in ... the buzz you hear is probably distortion from the preamp because you're probably hitting it pretty hard with the guitar signal ... which may not always be line level ... but is much higher than mic level. Don't worry about your preamp though, most mic preamps on consumer soundcards are worth frying anyway.
My advice ... if you want to get a decent, easy, versatile guitar sound ... get a POD. My opinion only.
Good luck.
Maybe you have it muted in your mixing software?
If you plug your guitar into the mic in ... the buzz you hear is probably distortion from the preamp because you're probably hitting it pretty hard with the guitar signal ... which may not always be line level ... but is much higher than mic level. Don't worry about your preamp though, most mic preamps on consumer soundcards are worth frying anyway.
My advice ... if you want to get a decent, easy, versatile guitar sound ... get a POD. My opinion only.
Good luck.
i can get the line in to record through windows sound recorder but not through my recording software (cooledit pro). There isnt even a line in option in the preferences in the volume properties in windows. dont see any options in cooledit to change the line in or mic in. thanks andrew also using the line in has MUCH better sound quality...
AlChuck
Well-known member
Sure there is... it's just not selected to be displayed. Open it again, go to the Options menu and select Properties. You'll get a dialog box; at the bottom, there's a list of devices with checkboxes labeled "Show the following volume controls." In the upper part of the dialog box, there's a section labeled "Adjust volume for." Select Recording and you get the list of recording devices in the bottom half. Make sure Line In is checked in this list, then click OK. You'll now see the sliders and enable.disable checkboxes for the Line In and whatever elseis being displayed. Make sure that Line In is checked at the bottom, and start with the fader about half-way up. You might have to return here later to adjust the fader level to its best position.
No, CoolEdit won't show that, it'll just show the WAV In device you can record from. The Windows mixer is what controls what exactly is piped into the WAV In device.
Al Chuck -- The SM57 pointed at the speaker cone of a great amp run through a preamp and recorded with a quality soundcard or good analog recorder will obviously provide superior sound to any possible direct to line-in configuration. And a POD will kick ass in any recording application. The impression I got though, was that iravage wasn't to the point where shelling out $200-$2000 bucks for extra gear to record his guitar was really plausible or desired. I guess it comes down to just how good he wants the quality to be. And as a quick-fix that provides relatively decent sound, plugging the guitar direct into line-in which, like BigKahuna said
Iravage -- If you've got $200 bucks, go get an SM57 and a single channel preamp. If your amp sucks (blown out, rattling 1 watt mini practice amp with one corner bashed in, e.g.) and isn't worth micing at all, or if you don't have cash, you'll get by in the short term with going direct to line-in.
Spoon
but it still works. And the primary benefit is that it doesn't cost iravage a dime.
Iravage -- If you've got $200 bucks, go get an SM57 and a single channel preamp. If your amp sucks (blown out, rattling 1 watt mini practice amp with one corner bashed in, e.g.) and isn't worth micing at all, or if you don't have cash, you'll get by in the short term with going direct to line-in.
Spoon
hey, the line in isnt in the properties at all in the volume controls (yes, i tried what you said), just to see what would happen i tried recording on my parents computer with a diff sound card, and the quality was much better and the line in worked.If i were to upgrade anything i think it would be the sound card on my comp, because i can see how much of a diff it makes in the quality of the sound. I was thinking about eventually maybe geting the sound blaster live 5.1 or saving some money and geting the sound blaster live(not 5.1), but i wasnt sure if it was good for recording, or if it was just good for playing back good quality sound.Thanks a lot
Andrew
[Edited by iravage on 02-17-2001 at 12:22]
Andrew
[Edited by iravage on 02-17-2001 at 12:22]
AlChuck
Well-known member
Amazing... a sound card with no line it... I guess it's possible... how useless is that?
The SB Live 5.1 is a newer version than the SB Live (not 5.1). It's priced exactly the same as far as I know; if anything, it would be more expensive, so I'm confused. As far as I know, there are three levels of current SB Lives: the "value" card (around $50), the X-Gamer or MP3+ models (just differ by packaging and particular software they're bundled with; around $75) and the Platinum (which adds a I/O module that takes up a drive bay space and lets you pluf things into the front of your PC instead of into the little 1/8" jacks in the back, for about an extra $100). The 5.1 designation indicates that they support Dolby 5.1 surround sound...
Anyway, any of these models will make a decent recording device to start out with.
if these cards all have 1/8th jacks and my stereo takes the bigger red and yellow type wire(dont know what they are called), if i use an adapter will i be losing quality? also if i go for the mp3 version or the x- gamer will those be good for recording, or should i get a better model?
AlChuck
Well-known member
The bigger red-and-yellow type are commonly called RCA connectors. Technically I guess that any time you add another coonection to the chain you reduce the quality some tiny bit, but I think it's negligible. But rather that an adapter, you might want to consider just a dedicated cable that has two RCA plugs on one end and a single stereo 1/8" plug on the other. Most music stores that sell any recording gear should have these in stock.
As far as the MP3+ or X-Gamer versions, they are essentially identical to the Platinum model, just without that admittedly convenient LiveDrive drive-bay module and the internal connector that hooks it to the card. For me, the $10 RCA-to-1/8" cable was a better deal than the $100 LiveDrive.
As far as the MP3+ or X-Gamer versions, they are essentially identical to the Platinum model, just without that admittedly convenient LiveDrive drive-bay module and the internal connector that hooks it to the card. For me, the $10 RCA-to-1/8" cable was a better deal than the $100 LiveDrive.
Well...the "best" way to go is obviously subjective...
SB's are great cards. They are pretty much industry standard for a huge variety of stuff. But they are not built to be a dedicated recording card. You can probably pick up a Delta card, or something similar which is more specifically designed for recording, in a similar price range...or you could spend thousands on the top of the line recording card with every imaginable extra. Essentially, if you are just getting into recording, don't have tons of money to spend or aren't interested in doing any really high end recording an SB will do you fine whatever model you pick...There is no recording quality difference in the different card versions...if you want convenience for $100 bucks, get a version with the live drive, if it isn't that important, don't bother. Oh, and unless you are going to use the card for home theatre surround sound system type stuff or you are really into gaming, the 5.1 upgrade is a waste of time. The other great thing about an SB as compared to a dedicated recording card is that you are apt to have better experience with gaming, computer applications, etc... and you'll get a bunch of software that comes with it.
But, if you're only interested in the card for the sake of recording, and you want better quality sound, look into a card that's made for it...something that lets you record at 24 bits instead of 16 (SB's are 16-bit cards), and has a higher sampling rate than SB's 48 kHz...Do a search on this site for some ideas as to good cards to buy.
I agree with AlChuck...an RCA to 1/8" plug cable is the way to go...But just for the record, LiveDrive's are pretty nice and very convenient...and if I remember right, they have an RCA connector on them. If you've got an extra hundred laying around, and a free drive bay, it couldn't hurt.
Spoon
SB's are great cards. They are pretty much industry standard for a huge variety of stuff. But they are not built to be a dedicated recording card. You can probably pick up a Delta card, or something similar which is more specifically designed for recording, in a similar price range...or you could spend thousands on the top of the line recording card with every imaginable extra. Essentially, if you are just getting into recording, don't have tons of money to spend or aren't interested in doing any really high end recording an SB will do you fine whatever model you pick...There is no recording quality difference in the different card versions...if you want convenience for $100 bucks, get a version with the live drive, if it isn't that important, don't bother. Oh, and unless you are going to use the card for home theatre surround sound system type stuff or you are really into gaming, the 5.1 upgrade is a waste of time. The other great thing about an SB as compared to a dedicated recording card is that you are apt to have better experience with gaming, computer applications, etc... and you'll get a bunch of software that comes with it.
But, if you're only interested in the card for the sake of recording, and you want better quality sound, look into a card that's made for it...something that lets you record at 24 bits instead of 16 (SB's are 16-bit cards), and has a higher sampling rate than SB's 48 kHz...Do a search on this site for some ideas as to good cards to buy.
I agree with AlChuck...an RCA to 1/8" plug cable is the way to go...But just for the record, LiveDrive's are pretty nice and very convenient...and if I remember right, they have an RCA connector on them. If you've got an extra hundred laying around, and a free drive bay, it couldn't hurt.
Spoon
ok, i think i know what im going to do, im going to get the sound blaster mp3+ card, and a cheap mixer, and run my guitar through the mixer into the line in on the sb card. For what im doing i think this would be good enough for now. What do you guys think? (remember i dont want to spend a lot) Thanks
Andrew
Andrew