Help a dumb drummer out ...

P

PinkFloyd

New member
Hi Everyone,

I've just started dabbling in songwriting and need some advice on where to start.

Do any of you have any recommended reading on music theory?

I've only recently started playing guitar and I want to know how to work out which chords will work in a given key and stuff.

Apologies if this is really basic stuff but I have no real experience in songwriting (guess that goes with being a drummer ...) and my entire guitar repertiore was learned from dodgy tabs from Harmony Central!

Any help/info/links/sarcastic comments would be most welcome

Thanks!

PF.
 
The major scale do, re, mi, etc in C is all naturals
C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C. If you notice the intervals between the notes that is, c-d skip a note, d-e skip a note, e-f dont skip a note, f-g skip a note, g-a skip a note, a-b skip a note, b-c dont skip a note, or in other words, whole step, whole step, half step, whole step, whole step, whole step,half step, then you will see how a major scale is built.
In G we would have G-A-B-C-D-E-F#-G

Anyway using the C major scale C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C. Triads(chords) are built over the degrees of the scale. The First being a major, the second being a minor, the third being a minor, the fourth being a major, the fifth being a major, the sixth being a minor, the seventh being an augmented.
so in C we have; Cmajor, Dminor, Eminor, Fmajor, Gmajor, Aminor,Baugmented, and then C major as the octave.
In G it would be Gmajor, A minor, Bminor, Cmajor, Dmajor, E minor
F#augmented.

In any song in the key of C major or Gmajor these will be the predominent chords
Of course this changes in minor keys.
I hope this helps for now.
 
Thanks dragonworks, this is exactly the kind of stuff I'm after.

Could you possibly tell me the "rule" for minor keys?

Thanks again,

PF.
 
In a minor scale the intervals between notes are different. Using Aminor as an example, once again because it is all naturals, we have A-B-C-D-E-F-G. As you will notice it is the same as a C major scale only started on the A note. Also you should notice that the intervals are different between the notes in the Am and CM scale.
This said, the intervals in a minor scale are, A-B skip a note, B-C dont skip a note (in CM we would skip a note here)C-D skip a note, D-E, skip a note, E-F dont skip a note , F-G skip a note. In other words
Whole step, Half step, Whole step, Whole step, Half Step, Whole step, as opposed to the Major Scale where we have Whole, Whole, Half, Whole, Whole, Whole , Half, steps.
Because both the CM and Am scale consist of the same notes the Am is called the "relative minor" to the C major.
Now if we want to make a minor scale starting on E and we follow the rules above, we end up with E-F#-G-A-B-C-D-E.
These are the same notes as those in the G major scale previously alluded to and Em is know as the relative minor to G major. Actually if you count up 6 notes on any major scale you wil come to its realitive minor; as in C major, C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C, A is the 6th note in the scale and is indeed the Am triad you built as previously mentioned. The same with the G major scale.
G-A-B-C-D-E-F#-G, if one counts up to the 6th note it is E which when the triad of Em is built on it becomes the relative minor.
OK enough of that.
The triads built on the degrees of the minor scale are
minor, minor, major, major or minor, major or minor, major, major.

So in the key of Am the predominant chords would be Am-Bm,CM ,DM or Dm, EM or Em, FM, GM.
In the key of Em the predominant chords would be Em-F#m-GM-AM or Am, BM or Bm, CM, DM.
If one is to count up three steps in any minor key one will come to its relative major. Try it and see.
As your intuition should lead you, if you learn all 12 major scales you also automatically know all twelve minor relavant scales by counting up six notes in each major scale and finding its relative minor. If you know all 12 minor scales you know all 12 major scalse by counting three up in the minor scale to the relative major.These two scales, the relative major and minor, will always be the same notes, just starting on a different note causing different intervals between the notes.
By the way if you dont know M=major, m=minor.
Here are the relative major and minor scales
AM-F#m
BbM-Gm
CM-Am
C#M-Bbm
DM-Bm
EbM-Cm
EM-C#m
FM-Dm
F#M-Ebm
GM-Em
G#M-FM
back to AM
If you pick up on this stuff right away you are not a dumb drummer. There is more that I can help you with but I would rather do it through email or PM.
Rmember, these "rules can always be broken but if you learn them they will help you pick things up quicker.
I can also tell you the formulas for building each type of chord, that is, major, minor, major seventh, dominant seventh, diminished, augmented, minor seventh, ninth, minor ninth or any other chord through simple formulas using the major scales.Glad to be of help.
 
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Hey 'Floyd, good for you man! for learning a new instrument, and increasing your expressive skills. As a drummer, I imagine your rhythm will be solid! Maybe someone in your area who plays well would be able to give you a few lessons. Find a great player in a band that's booked for a week in your area, and ask for a single lesson. Many of the touring poor would be more than happy to earn some extra coin. Go get 'em, Floyd.

As for the replies, I can safely say that if this person is 'lost at C' (sorry Drag), "B" is going to be a real pain in the patoot. Exceptional clarity and explanations. 10/10. It's great to see people helping people out. Although I an a newbian, I see a lot of this on this site, and it's good. I'm finding that not only am I ignorant (look it up), I actually know more than I thought I did, and I'm capable of absorbing more.

Wail.
 
Im no music theory guy. I took a music theory class in 1976 and it was only Music Theory 101, so I may be wrong on some of this but I think I still remember it.
So if any of you music theory cats see somethng wrong here please feel free to jump in and correct me.
 
By the way, I posted that book link NOT to supercede Dragonwork's info, 'cause that's all good stuff.

I just liked the book (bought my first copy like 20 years ago or so) because of the way it illustrates and explains the scales, relatives, blues scales, chords, and many ways to play them. It's a very relaxed read and actually fun to practice from (rather than your typical "Michael Rode The Boat Ashore" type guitar book). Best of all, it feeds it to the reader in "small, easy to digest bites." And as far as music theory, it might not give you as much of an education as a college course, but it gives you everything you'll use most frequently.

Personally, I'd say it's a must-have for anyone wanting to learn blues, rock-and-roll, or metal, and a should-have for anyone else.
 
If you take the Am scale A-B-C-D-E-F-G-A and take out the B, and F, leaving A-C-D-E-G-A, you have what I have always heard called the Pentatonic scale. (I dont believe this a true pentatonic scale though, I am not sure) It is the most widely used scale in rock and roll and blues. Just double it to two octaves that is A-C-D-E-G-A-C-D-E-G-A .
If this scale is played along with a rock or blues in Amajor it will sound very rocky or somewhat bluesy. There are a few mods to it to make it sound more bluesy.
If this scale is started on C (the relative major) and the same notes are played, along with a progression in CM, then this scale will sound very countryish.
Also, these scales form "patterns" on string instruments{not so on non string instruments} and once you learn the "pattern" you can easily move the "pattern" up and down the neck for different keys.
This makes learning scales on a string instrument very easy compared to non string instruments that are "linear".
 
Thanks for all the help, guys - I really appreciate it.

dragonworks,
Once I've digested all this, I'll PM you and let you know how I'm getting on and possibly chuck some more questions your way - is that alright?
 
PinkFloyd,

I started as a drummer, after a few years I taught myself guitar (with the help of every guitar player who would spare a minute), in part to write songs and in part to be able to play music in the wee hours (neighbors don't consider drums music at almost any hour).

Now, many years later, I'm a decent guitar player, a good keyboard player, I have some banjo, violin and harmonica chops - and of course, I still have very good drum chops. While I still try to master theory, I understand enough to be more than functional on several instruments

I say this only to make the point that if you keep at it, and have a real desire you can and will learn guitar (or whatever instrument you choose) and by the way - it will make you a better drummer in the process!!!

There are tons of books on theory, check out a local library to get started. I'm sure you can find some guitar players who can teach you several basic progressions, etc. Good Luck!!!!
 
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