Hearing loss myths?

Chris Jahn

New member
Im sure we have all heard that if your ears are ringing after exposure to high db, that you have at that moment caused permanent hearing loss, and even more specifically you have lost that particular frequency that your hearing ring.

Anyone know how true all of this is? what does it really take to blow out your ears over time, or even in one shot?
 
After about 10 LOUD concerts with no protection my ears are fucked. I have REALLY sensitive ears as far as volume though. I can't practice without toilet paper or something. About 10 times of "letting it go" screwed me up though.
 
Losing a specific frequency where your hearing rings? Not altogether, I'd say, but it can get obscured, while your hearing is ringing. This solely my personal experience, BTW. The occasional ring I have is around 800Hz, and I have no problem hearing that frequency at all.

As far as the damage, temporary threshold shift (ringing or other symptoms that disappear in a day or so) should be taken as a serious warning that your ears were in danger. There may or may not be lasting noticeable effects. The big thing is that the losses are cumulative, so every time it happens, you damage a little more. That happens pretty much everyday, at some point. Thankfully we are fairly rugged little animals.
 
Chris Jahn said:
Im sure we have all heard that if your ears are ringing after exposure to high db, that you have at that moment caused permanent hearing loss, and even more specifically you have lost that particular frequency that your hearing ring.

Anyone know how true all of this is? what does it really take to blow out your ears over time, or even in one shot?

There really isn't a specific answer to your question, other than to say that the cells in your ear (hair cells) that are responsible for hearing at the various frequencies do not divide/reproduce. Thus, once they die, you will never recover that range of your hearing (unless you receive a cochlear implant). The louder the noise, the less time it will take to do damage, and any consistent noise level above about 85dB is potentially damaging.
 
Ringing in the ears (tinnitis in medical terms) is a message from your body that your ears are being destroyed. Response to high SPL's (sound pressure levels) is very individualized. How hard do I have to hit you with a stick to leave a bruise? It's not the same for everyone, even if the stick and the point of impact are the same. Some people can suffer permanent hearing loss from exposure to 80-90 decibels, even for a short time. The people you hear with the killer subwoofers in their cars will mostly be deaf by the time they are 60, if they're not shot by their dealers first.-Richard Monroe RN
 
You don't necessarily suffer permanent loss from hearing the same frequencies as the ringing; any frequencies can cause damage, although certain frequencies are more likely to cause damage than others, where the ear is more sensitive.

If you end up with tinnitus, as I have (although not from a known exposure to loud volumes in my case), yes the hearing loss is partially at the same frequency as the ringing, but it is also typically more broadband than that. The loss at the ringing frequency is due to a masking effect. In essence, the tinnitus acts as a noise floor at that frequency. In addition to that, you will lose acuity at high frequencies, both the ultrahigh range as well as the 4-6kHz range which is important for distinguishing consonants in speech.
 
Whe I was 5 I went to a tractor pull with my Dad...sat in the front row...I didn't have ear plugs...I put the left side of my head against his shoulder and put my hand up against my right ear. The noise was so intense that my right ear was permanently damaged that night..in one shot....instantly.

rub your fingers together right next to your ears in the geture that means "money"....the rubbing noise is precisely the frequesncy the my right ear has never again registered. It SUCKS.
 
I've always been at concerts and in bands with unprotected ears...I can hear up to 23khz on any speaker system that can reproduce a pure tone that high...With tweeters, I can pick it up at pretty low volumes about two feet away. I can hear upper harmonics off of computer fans in quiet rooms that make my ears hurt if I concentrate on them, and it's not tinitis...If I leave the room or turn my head, it's gone.

It really does depend on the person and their exposure...I know two drummers who've been drumming for the same amount of time...One of them has played in nationally touring, gig or two a day bands, and his hearing is better than the other guy, who has always worn ear plugs or isolation phones when playing.

Go figure!
 
Oh yeah, anyone who knows...I've always heard that wearing headphones with one ear working only can damage your hearing...And that tractor pull story, that has to be the same principal.
 
I read somewhere that lower frequencies are more damaging at higher levels than the higher freq counterpart. I've personally noticed that when I'm in a car with a massive bass system blaring it physically hurts my ears. I've been to a ton of rock concerts and I've never experienced pain like that. Although I did go to a rave in atlanta about 7 or 8 years ago and they had the biggest pa I have ever seen. After the rave all I could hear was a humming sound for many hours afterwards. I try to stay away from loud bass now.
 
UGMastermind said:
I read somewhere that lower frequencies are more damaging at higher levels than the higher freq counterpart. I've personally noticed that when I'm in a car with a massive bass system blaring it physically hurts my ears.

Probably because the average maxxed out car system is throwing off a TON of harmonic distortion, which is damaging higher frequency content.
 
I used to get ringing in my ears around the time I was at Primary School.
I got the ringing randomly it seemed, as there was no loud noise in the class.

Anyone had a similar problem and know why it happened?
Eck
 
mrhotapples said:
I've always been at concerts and in bands with unprotected ears...I can hear up to 23khz on any speaker system that can reproduce a pure tone that high...

How can you be sure that the speaker is producing a pure 23kHz tone? That is a pretty tall order of any audio chain, it is highly likely that you could be hearing intermodulation distortion at a lower frequency.
 
I can't be entirely sure unless I measure it, and then still. I guess I really mean that, in those programs that generate tones, I can go up to about 23207 hz before things drop off and become really quiet or disappear.
 
mshilarious said:
Probably because the average maxxed out car system is throwing off a TON of harmonic distortion, which is damaging higher frequency content.

I bet it's just plain old stupid loud. With the windows closed, a car can be close to a sealed box with a moving piston at one end. You can get some major SPL.
 
mrhotapples said:
I can't be entirely sure unless I measure it, and then still. I guess I really mean that, in those programs that generate tones, I can go up to about 23207 hz before things drop off and become really quiet or disappear.

Sure, the software can generate a clean tone, but then it has to enter the real world of converters, amps, and speakers. My test gear isn't super high end, but it doesn't suck, either. If I send a 23kHz sine wave out at 85dBSPL, I also get a 15dBSPL distortion at 2kHz. Also, the tone has to be faded in and out so you don't hear clicks when the tone starts and stops.

I don't doubt that you have much better hearing than I do, so please protect it!
 
boingoman said:
I bet it's just plain old stupid loud. With the windows closed, a car can be close to a sealed box with a moving piston at one end. You can get some major SPL.

Well the worst experience was in the rockford fosgate van at a stereo show. Damn that's taking bass to the extreme. And all the doors were wide open.
 
Here is a good site for info:

http://www.hearnet.com/index.shtml

I've lost hearing over the years. If I lay on my pillow on my left ear, I can't hear birds chirping outside. At all.

Always wear earplugs of some kind when playing rock. You'll want to be able to listen to your recordings when you are an old fart.
 
Chris Jahn said:
Im sure we have all heard that if your ears are ringing after exposure to high db, that you have at that moment caused permanent hearing loss, and even more specifically you have lost that particular frequency that your hearing ring.

Anyone know how true all of this is? what does it really take to blow out your ears over time, or even in one shot?

Chris,

140db is about the threshhold for pain, and possibly permanent damage to the ears. A motley crue concert would probably be something close to that.

Another good establishment to look at is OSHEA. They determine what is safe in the workplace in terms of exposure to many kinds of things.

At 85-90 db, you're looking at about 8 hours of exposure without critical damage to your hearing. I would say that's maybe about as loud as a blow dryer, perhaps a little softer.

I highly encourage you to study the parts that make up the human ear and how they function. Quite frankly, it would be very ignorant for any engineer to pursue a career in audio if he's oblivious to the mechanisms that make his career possible. I hate to put it that way, but if you're careless about your hearing, then feel free to plan for early retirement. That's how serious the matter is.

You have to understand that your ears are resiliant, but they are highly sensitive, too. I'm going to lay out some facts that I've learned over the years from many different professionals in audio and hopefully you can learn to apply them effectively:



-In the process of hearing loss, when you don't have ringing, you will develope a gradual loss in higher frequencies first.

The usual range of hearing for human beings will be from 20hz to 20khz. Certain races (especially asian) can actually hear frequencies in the 30khz range.

Within time, with normal exposure to the noises in current society, you will be lucky to hear up to 15khz by the time you are 40.

The reason being is because of the hairs inside the snail (cochlea) of your ear. You have *tons* of hairs running inside there, each at varying lengths. Each length corresponds to different frequencies. When you are exposed to sound, they move about to create the vibrations that we translate into an audiable signal. When that's damaged, they lay flat and fail to stand up in thier natural position.


-Habits such as smoking ciggerettes, or marijuana put your ears at higher risks for ear damage.

When you smoke ciggerettes (as I am currently guilty of), you deprive your body of oxygen by inhaling carbon monoxide. The compounds within that carbon monoxide prevent the process of natural healing and protection to your hearing mechanism by restricting blood flow to your ears. Instead of getting a healthy amount of red blood cells to your ears, the carbon monoxide attach to the cells in your ear, restricting the red blood cells from supplying your ears with vital oxygen. The oxygen they need to protect against the noises you're exposed to. Your ears are suffocating (on a smaller level) in the way you would if you where trapped in a room with car exhaust fumes.

With marajuana smoke, it's a little different. When you're exposed to extremely loud noises, your ears naturally lock up to protect themselves from permanent damage.

That's why when you leave a loud venue, you may experience a temporary muffled quality to your hearing, before they go back to normal. That simply means your hears are locked up. It's kind of like a water lock.

However, when you smoke marajuana, that tends to relax that mechanism. It relaxes your ears to a point where they don't lock up as much, if at all. The result is like if that water lock never kicks in.


-One last fun fact is that the consumption of any food and beverage actually temporarily changes your hearing temporarily. When your stomach digests food, it needs blood to do so. Therefore, your body makes adjustments to get more blood in that region of your body.

So it's not uncommon to hear about highly critical engineers eating light while on the job.
 
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