Headroom for mastering

R

Rock Star 87

New member
I didn't know I was supposed to leave headroom for the mastering engineer.

I set my mixes so that the loudest peak was directly under clip level.

Is that a bad thing?
 
As long as it's truly under full-scale -- NATURALLY -- as in "not because there's a limiter stopping it there, it just happens to be the part where he hit the snare a little harder than the rest" or what not, it's fine.

If there's a limiter of excessive compression (or anything else for the sake of volume) take it off and back it off.

Personally? It's too hot. That's just me. And pretty much anyone that gets it is actually going to turn it down (maybe considerably) before they start working on it - "In the box" or not. But when the rubber meets the road, as long as you're not actually clipping (or limiting the buss), you're in good shape.
 
Massive Master said:
As long as it's truly under full-scale -- NATURALLY -- as in "not because there's a limiter stopping it there, it just happens to be the part where he hit the snare a little harder than the rest" or what not, it's fine.

If there's a limiter of excessive compression (or anything else for the sake of volume) take it off and back it off.

Personally? It's too hot. That's just me. And pretty much anyone that gets it is actually going to turn it down (maybe considerably) before they start working on it - "In the box" or not. But when the rubber meets the road, as long as you're not actually clipping (or limiting the buss), you're in good shape.
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Sorry to hijack but, what about too low? I have a full CD (10 songs) that all run about -12 to -18 Peak at the Master Bus in Sonar 6.2. I'm getting ready to have them Mastered (btw, we need to talk :D) and is this too low?
 
Rock Star 87 said:
I set my mixes so that the loudest peak was directly under clip level.
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My question is what exactly do you mean by the highlighted phrase?

If you're adjusting the final levels on the mixdown master bus to push the peaks up near zero, then most MEs would tell you not to bother; it doesn't really help anything and - like Massive said - they'll probably just turn it down themselves anyway before they continue.

If you're needing to pull *back* on the master bus in order to keep your peaks from clipping, then that usually indicates that something is running a bit hotter than it need be somewhere upstream; either one or all of your tracks are being tracked hotter than optimal, or you're unnecessarily boosting the gain somewhere during mixing (hint: sometimes it's better to pull back on the first 3 track levels instead of pushing the gain on the 4th just to get it heard.)

G.
 
Mike62Jazz said:
Sorry to hijack but, what about too low? I have a full CD (10 songs) that all run about -12 to -18 Peak at the Master Bus in Sonar 6.2. I'm getting ready to have them Mastered (btw, we need to talk :D) and is this too low?
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That's pretty low, but certainly not "illegally" low or anything. I make classical recordings (where S/N really is an issue) and if I peak higher than -12dBFS during tracking, I wear a cilice around my ankle for two sunsets.

If you want to re-export with all the faders up a dB or two, you can certainly try it (although if you're feeding a compressor or what not, it may affect that signal - But you might like it too). But don't feel as if you have to... If you're in 24-bit, you're fine.
 
"If you want to re-export with all the faders up a dB or two, you can certainly try it (although if you're feeding a compressor or what not, it may affect that signal - But you might like it too). But don't feel as if you have to... If you're in 24-bit, you're fine."

Nothing on the Master Bus. Unfortunately, it's at 16 bit. All the basic tracks were done 7 years ago. It was originally recorded on Adat. It is now in Sonar 6. The whole project is 48khz-16 bit. I'm not sure why it was originally set up this way, but it's what we have.
 
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Well, assuming all your calculations are in 32-bit float, you can still export in 24-bit fixed... You're not exactly in "bad" shape. You could still bump it up a notch, but as long as they sound good when you're cranking it up some, you should be fine.

If nothing else - Normalize them (?!?) and just have a listen.
 
Massive Master said:
Well, assuming all your calculations are in 32-bit float, you can still export in 24-bit fixed... You're not exactly in "bad" shape. You could still bump it up a notch, but as long as they sound good when you're cranking it up some, you should be fine.

If nothing else - Normalize them (?!?) and just have a listen.
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Thanks John! They do sound good cranked! BTW, PM sent.
 
No, no, no, no, no...

I suggested normalizing as a way to simply bring the peak level up to listen to them. If he's 18dB shy of full-scale, he's going to be cranking the amplifier a little beyond the "sweet spot" - adding noise and such when listening.

Normalizing the audio will just bring it closer to that "sweet spot" so the amplifier isn't overworking to amplify a quiet signal.

Amplifiers like line level -- Just like everything else. A -24 to -18dBRMS signal will suit it just fine. Assuming his mixes (peaking at -18dBFS) are around -40 to -36dBRMS, the amp is going to have to be rather loud and maybe even noisy -- He'll need to know whether that noise is the mix or the amplifier.

Although when it comes down to it, he's already said they sound good cranked - Even with the additional noise from the amp. That's a good thing, sure. But it'll still be easier to hear the noise in the recording with less noise from the system.
 
So the final mixdown needs to be at about average -18dbFS before its sent to mastering? Aren't they just going to make it loud and lose the dynamics?
 
It's not a "rule" -- Actually, most mixes that come in at -18dBRMS don't have enough headroom.

And yes, unfortunately, most clients are typically going to ask for the dynamics to be crushed. But that's a *last* step in most cases -- If they come in squashed, improvement is generally limited to "making it less irritating." Corrective processes work best with "natural" (for lack of a better term) dynamics and a decent amount of headroom.
 
Massive Master said:
As long as it's truly under full-scale -- it's fine.

as long as you're not actually clipping (or limiting the buss), you're in good shape.
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Massive Master said:
If you're in 24-bit, you're fine.
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Massive Master said:
you can still export in 24-bit fixed...You're not exactly in "bad" shape.
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Rock Star 87 said:
does that mean if my mixes are right under clip, they're unusable?
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Geez, dude...How many different ways do you want him to answer you?
 
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