Hardware Question For Tracking Vocals... Compressor/limiter/preamp??

0-T

0-T

New member
Sup,

I record vocals for several artists, with different voices and styles. I have to change the settings drastically if they're laid back, or more intense... and with each individual's voice.

I don't mind adjusting settings a little... but I have to use drastically differently settings for each artist, each time, and each tone they perform in, just to prevent the wave from peaking.

I enjoy software compressors since they give more control... so I wanna track as dry as possible, but so I'm not sure what hardware I need to make tracking a little easier and better.

I use a Meek Q3 preamp now.

What do y'all use or recommend to prevent peaking/popping but still getting nice large waves?
 
Better technique from your singers!

Also, mic placement is critical. Try putting the capsule up about forehead-high and angling the mic down about 20-30 degrees. This and a good pop filter should help smooth things out with a singer with decent technique.
 
to make a long story short, their technique isn't in question.


I haven't tried that mic placement though. thx
 
The key is compressing and/or limiting on the way in. Some people are affraid of heavy compression or limiting on the way in, but I don't hesitate with the right compressor and/or limiter, when I'm use to using them. Unfortunately, the only compressors I can say that about certainly aren't cheap.
 
Do you use heavy compression on the way in and keep it, or light compression and then use software later on?

and which do you recommend?
 
Technique

"I have to change the settings drastically if they're laid back, or more intense... and with each individual's voice.
"
If your vocalist is going from laid back to intense in the same performance, thier good technique will produce a workable constant volume level throughout. From laid back to intense.
This is what the guy in the previous post meant, though he didn't bother to explain it this clearly, probably expecting you would understand what he meant. I believe, in no way, was he trying to attack the quality of your performers, but only trying to help.

If your question is specifically in reguards to having to spend time setting up for each individual vocalist, the answer is simple. Of course you have to spend time to suit each individual performance and performer.
We all have shortcuts and starting points based on experience when we set up to record a vocal. The process ends with the ears, but starts with the brain.
Based on past experiences (A low male vocal for example) you may have a good idea which mic to use, etc.
As far as a limited time, cookie cutter type setup to record a vast range of vocalists? You may find something of an average that works OK for everything, but very few things will shine.

You are touching on a lot of very strong and generally accepted feelings as far as compression goes.
Use as little as possible when tracking as long as you can get a big fat wave file. The flexibility you mentioned is paramount. Compress more later if you need or want to.
There is no point in having a totally clean, uncompressed vocal, if you can't hear the words or nuances the vocalist is trying to impress. Then again, there is no point in losing the dynamics of a well done performance.

Good Luck friend.

Still lost,
RJ
I'm Lost Home recording comp cd #1
 
Most of the time on vocals, I use heavy limiting or light compression in addition to heavy limiting into the recorder while tracking and add light compression/limiting or no compression/limiting while mixing.

Occasionally on vocals, I'll use light compression and/or limiting into the recorder while tracking and add more light compression or heavy compression/limiting or no compression/limiting while mixing.

Very rarely on vocals, I'll use no compression or limiting going into the recorder while tracking and add light or heavy compression/limiting while mixing.

Most of the time on instruments and room mics, I'll use no compression or limiting going into the recorder while tracking and add light or heavy compression/limiting while mixing.

Occasionally on instruments and room mics, I'll use light or heavy compression and/or limiting into the recorder while tracking and add more light or heavy compression/limiting while mixing.
 
0-T said:
Do you use heavy compression on the way in and keep it, or light compression and then use software later on?

and which do you recommend?
Click to expand...

I hate to say it, but it just depends on the type of vocal. For rap or just for more dynamic material, I'll compress and limit on the way in, and often during mix time as well. Just depends on the situation.

As for a good limiter to prevent overs, I would highly recommend the Aphex Dominator. It does all the stuff an L2 does, only less expensively. I'd recommend just about any compressor they make, come to think of it.
 
I use compression on the way in all the time especially with hip-hop. I use an FMR-RNC to keep from clipping the converters and so I get a good strong signal. It works great. I still use some software compression on a group buss to bring som continuaty to the main and dub tracks as well.
 
Recording Engineer said:
The key is compressing and/or limiting on the way in. Some people are affraid of heavy compression or limiting on the way in, but I don't hesitate with the right compressor and/or limiter, when I'm use to using them. Unfortunately, the only compressors I can say that about certainly aren't cheap.
Click to expand...

i think the RNC does that nicely in supernice mode, but then again my main vox mic is an SM7.... which is almost impossible to clip unless your micing a sonic boom....
 
Yes, I find the RNC's Super Nice with moderate gain reduction to be excellent for compressing or limiting on the way in. However, I'd never trust it when I want heavy squashing to the recorder while tracking vocals, when given the choice...

I'd rather an optical compressor/limiter for that, as I find that about as close as I ever can be to "set and forget" with a compressor/limiter... Which is still not all that close.

Plus, anything with an attack and release control, I'm always second-guessing myself on the attack and release settings I choose, throughout the entire recording, when heavily compressing or limiting.
 
I use an RNC set up as a limiter, the way Middleman suggested, ie, threshhold= -2.5db, compression = 25:1 (max on knob), attack = fastest (knob max CCW), release = fastest (knob max CCW) and 0 (zero) makeup gain.

My signal chain is: either AKG D95S, Shure KSM27, or SP TB-1 mic into a DMP3 preamp into the RNC into the Korg D1600 digital recorder. It all works really well for me.

Tom
 
Thanks for all the replies. I'm heavily considering the RNC for some light limiting.

Silly question, but does the RNC come with a cable to run from my preamp, or do I need to buy another cable along with it?

Also, is there a better place than Humbucker to get one?


Tomcat, with those settings, would you say that you still get a fairly dynamic wave from the vocals?
 
Last edited:
Sorry O-T for the delay. Haven't been here for a while.

Yes, I still get a very dynamic signal. With those settings the only thing affected is the peaks which are no longer allowed to go "over". Anything less than -2.5 db is left alone and not compressed. You might try using less of a threshhold, say maybe -1.5 db or even -1.0 db. The best situation is to use the least required to stop the overs, so try some different settings.

Tom
 
Tomcat said:
Yes, I still get a very dynamic signal. With those settings the only thing affected is the peaks which are no longer allowed to go "over". Anything less than -2.5 db is left alone and not compressed. You might try using less of a threshhold, say maybe -1.5 db or even -1.0 db. The best situation is to use the least required to stop the overs, so try some different settings...TomCat
Click to expand...

Tomcat...(or anyone...)...

Sorry to respond to such an old (but great, nonetheless) thread...but...using the RNC as a brick wall (which I need to do for my very next recording session) w/ those settings...w/ a fast attack time...doesn't a fast attack produce a flatter peak? So...(if that's true)...& if one wants to limit & get the most natural sounding wave...shouldn't a slower attack time be utilized?

Looking at those knobs...if I went w/ a 2.0ms attack (as opposed to fully CCW...at 0.2ms)...& a release setting of 0.5ms (as opposed to fully CCW, .05ms)...wouldn't that still fully catch the transients but give me a rounder wave at the peak (& perhaps a more natural sound)?

Thanks for any expertise,


mark4man
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The slow attack will not respond quickly enough to fast transients and will cause overs... a slow release will make the volume swell after compressing a peak... It's transparency is in the ratio setting... you're just compressing the extreme peaks in the signal
 
mofo...

Thanks...makes sense now that I think about it (ratio also having an affect on the waveform). RNC also recommends a fast attack w/ the max ratio setting (25:1). [but they also recommend increasing (accordingly) the 'release' time for slower signals (vox being slower than snare hit transients, for example).]

Thanks again,


mark4man
 
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