Hard Rock sample - does the mix sound right?

S

Shiny Rhino

New member
I'm about to record a heavy band, which isn't something I've done before, so I quickly came up with a riff and then built on it to create a short audio sample to practice mixing this genre. How does it sound? Any suggestions after hearing the clip?

Heavy Rock Sample

Thanks,
Rhino
 
Sounds good to me. When you do it for real, go wider on the rhythm guitars to really make it sound big.
 
Thanks for the listen, Greg.

I'll take your advice on the guitars. Do the drums sound right for this style? Mainly kick? I kinda feel like you might be the goto drum guy for this question. I dig your drum sounds.
 
That sound really good. The only thing I would suggest is to high pass the guitars around 150Hz to bring out the bass a bit more. The drums sound good to me too, but like you stated, Greg is the man to ask about that.
 
Rokket said:
That sound really good. The only thing I would suggest is to high pass the guitars around 150Hz to bring out the bass a bit more. The drums sound good to me too, but like you stated, Greg is the man to ask about that.
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I do have a HP filter on the guitars, but I'll check my settings, as it may be only around 100hz. I eq'd the higher freqs of the bass for a more clicky attack which I thought suited the style more, but I wasn't sure if I should let the kick occupy the lows alone or have more bass guitar present with this style. I was thinking back to Korn, there bass tones were never bassy from my memory... It definitely is providing lows to the mix, but is the answer just the HP filter on the guitars, or more cuts to the guitars in the "attack" freqs of the bass?
 
Shiny Rhino said:
I do have a HP filter on the guitars, but I'll check my settings, as it may be only around 100hz. I eq'd the higher freqs of the bass for a more clicky attack which I thought suited the style more, but I wasn't sure if I should let the kick occupy the lows alone or have more bass guitar present with this style. I was thinking back to Korn, there bass tones were never bassy from my memory... It definitely is providing lows to the mix, but is the answer just the HP filter on the guitars, or more cuts to the guitars in the "attack" freqs of the bass?
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I will have to dig out an old example for you, but I usually high pass the bass around 100Hz also, to carve out room for the kick. It keeps you from having to boost the kick to get it to stand out. Since it sounds like you probably tracked the drums right, it shouldn't be too hard to get them to sound good, and if Greg comes back in here, he could help you a bit more on that. He's played drums for my tracks, and he's such a pro at tracking his kit, it's easy to mix them. You don' really need a lot of bottom end for the bass to stand out in a mix, though, because most systems boost the bass as it is. Get it to sound good and stand out, and you will have it.
 
Shiny Rhino said:
Thanks for the listen, Greg.

I'll take your advice on the guitars. Do the drums sound right for this style? Mainly kick? I kinda feel like you might be the goto drum guy for this question. I dig your drum sounds.
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Thanks. I don't know if I'm the go-to anything, but thanks anyway.

Um yeah, I think the drums sound pretty good for the style. The kick has plenty of attack and presence with some balls behind it, but it's not too much of either, so I think you did pretty good with the drums. Maybe bring the snare and toms up some. Just a little.
 
Rokket said:
I will have to dig out an old example for you, but I usually high pass the bass around 100Hz also, to carve out room for the kick. It keeps you from having to boost the kick to get it to stand out. Since it sounds like you probably tracked the drums right, it shouldn't be too hard to get them to sound good, and if Greg comes back in here, he could help you a bit more on that. He's played drums for my tracks, and he's such a pro at tracking his kit, it's easy to mix them. You don' really need a lot of bottom end for the bass to stand out in a mix, though, because most systems boost the bass as it is. Get it to sound good and stand out, and you will have it.
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I usually carve out the freqs lower than 100hz on bass, mainly the ones I want the kick to occupy but have never HP'd them. Interesting... I'm gonna give it a whirl. Bass has always been my Achilles heel when mixing. Always giving me some kind of rash, for sure.

Thanks. I don't know if I'm the go-to anything, but thanks anyway.

Um yeah, I think the drums sound pretty good for the style. The kick has plenty of attack and presence with some balls behind it, but it's not too much of either, so I think you did pretty good with the drums. Maybe bring the snare and toms up some. Just a little.
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We often don't place ourselves in as high of regard as we should... so, I'm gonna say you're a go-to guy here for drums, because you stand out above others (that I've heard), and you're just gonna have to be cool with that!! :)

As for snare, maybe you can help me here... why do I always struggle with getting the snare loud enough when I'm always so close to clipping that channel? The rest of my drum channel faders are usually at halfway or less and my snare is pushing 0db. I mix the drums and the other instruments, then realize the snares attack is getting buried so I boost me some frequencies to get the transients heard again, maybe throw on a transient designer and then I'm on the verge of clipping that channel, and I guess I should be lowering the other instruments, but I end up throwing a limiter on the snare and making sure it doesn't clip. Is this a common issue, or specific to me? Any good workarounds from you experience?

Cheers guys, I appreciate the discussion and help.
 
Shiny Rhino said:
why do I always struggle with getting the snare loud enough when I'm always so close to clipping that channel?
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That sounds like a classic phase problem. I have to flip the polarity on my snare in 99% of my drum tracks. I bet if you do that, it will pop right out and you'll have to turn it down. Snare tracks are often out of phase with the overheads, which results in exactly what you're describing.
 
RAMI said:
That sounds like a classic phase problem. I have to flip the polarity on my snare in 99% of my drum tracks. I bet if you do that, it will pop right out and you'll have to turn it down. Snare tracks are often out of phase with the overheads, which results in exactly what you're describing.
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Thanks, I'll give it a try and see if it makes a difference. In the event that it's not a phase issue, should I just lower all other tracks rather than fighting a losing battle with the snare channel? It just seems to be the way it goes though... I get a good mix, all levels sorted out then realize the snare isn't cracking enough for my liking AFTER all the instrument levels are brought up, then it's a battle. Happens with the kick too, but not bad enough to need a limiter. Should I avoid limiting, if the phase switch doesn't make the difference, (which I'm hoping it will...not at home to test it out).
 
Shiny Rhino said:
Thanks, I'll give it a try and see if it makes a difference. In the event that it's not a phase issue, should I just lower all other tracks rather than fighting a losing battle with the snare channel? It just seems to be the way it goes though... I get a good mix, all levels sorted out then realize the snare isn't cracking enough for my liking AFTER all the instrument levels are brought up, then it's a battle. Happens with the kick too, but not bad enough to need a limiter. Should I avoid limiting, if the phase switch doesn't make the difference, (which I'm hoping it will...not at home to test it out).
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If it turns out that it's not a phase issue, then yes, just turn everything else down an equal amount until the snare is cutting through like you want it to.
 
I think you got it. Sounds good to me. I like the guitars a bit wider in the mix, but that's a personal nit. Nice work. Now I'd like to hear you mix a whole song, with vocals...
 
Well, I'm happy that it's passed the test. It's my first time with this style, but I got to admit, it's pretty fun. The main chunky guitar is only one track, which is why it doesn't sound very wide. I thought about double tracking it, but opted for a sample delayed, split signal guitar. It's just being processed differently, which I did just to save time, because it was just a quick clip and not a real song. But I'll be double tracking and hard panning the real deal. :)

I have always recorded pop/rock, country'ish and folkie stuff, so I am happy that I was able to at least get the music tracks sounding decent. I'll post something when I finish my next work... it most likely won't be this style, but you can at least hear a full song with vox.

Cheers guys, thanks for the help and advice.
 
What Rami said is right-on, and it's a cool little trick I learned from him and now use all the time. Flip the phase on the snare. Sometimes it's the perfect medicine and really makes the snare pop. I don't know how well it works with loops and/or samples, but with real drums, it makes a difference. Works on the kick too.

Your newest mix sounds fine to me. Good drum presence overall.
 
Yeah... I don't have any nits, other than I prefer a wider overall mix - both in drums and guitars. Other than that, sounds great!
 
Shiny Rhino said:
Aside from panning the toms, how can I make the drums wider? Am I missing something that I can implement to make a wider mix?
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What are you mixing with? A board, or software? Most mixing software has plugins which will do this for you. They are usually labelled 'stereo width' or sometimes just 'stereo', but the options allow you to lower the center volume and pump up the right and left volumes. If you use something like this, make sure you bring the gain down the same amount you boost the right and left volumes.
 
I use Logic 9. I've seen the "stereo spreader" plug, but it can't be what you're describing, it was gimmicky. But I'll have a look for something else.
 
Shiny Rhino said:
I use Logic 9. I've seen the "stereo spreader" plug, but it can't be what you're describing, it was gimmicky. But I'll have a look for something else.
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Don't bother with any ridiculous "Stereo Widening" crap. Use your pan knob.
 
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