guitars not loud enough

C

Ctrl_Alt_Dlt

New member
What can I do to my mix if it sounds like my guitars are not loud enough? It sounds like when I turn them up, they tend to cover up the drums. When I turn them down, they dont sound clear enough.

I have the following setup:

Presonus Firestudio ----> Sonar 4

I used two SM57's.

Guitars are panned at about 40% to the left and right. Two separate guitar tracks. KB/SNARE in the middle.

what can I do to make the guitars sound more clear without drowning my drums?
 
Have you tried applying EQ?

Have you tried tracking them differently? Turn up your mids, turn down your distortion?
 
Seafroggys said:
Have you tried applying EQ?

Have you tried tracking them differently? Turn up your mids, turn down your distortion?
Click to expand...

I did apply EQ in which I turned up the mids mostly. I turned my distortion down on my amp already. Whats strange is on my fender Deville, i play the gain at a level 3 when I play live, but when I record it, it sounds too muddy and thick, hence when recorded, I usually record at a level 1.

Both are tracked differently.

Maybe its my mics or how I miced them? It just sounds like there is a blanket over the guitar sound. Its not as pronounced and clear. Maybe its the amp too.
 
Doesn't always apply, but in general I would suggest... Slightly less amp gain. Pan hard L and R. High-pass them all, and maybe scoop a small amount of mids depending on the context.
 
mattr said:
Doesn't always apply, but in general I would suggest... Slightly less amp gain. Pan hard L and R. High-pass them all, and maybe scoop a small amount of mids depending on the context.
Click to expand...

I'll try the hard panning and the high pass. Thanks!
 
2nd on the hi pass. I usually start at around 100 hz and play from there. Sometimes everything below 100 hz gets chucked, sometimes up to around 2 or 250 hz. Depends on the mix. ;)
 
RAMI said:
Unless the 2 mics are the exact same distance from your amp, you may be having phase problems which are causing the mics to cancel each other out.
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When i solo each track, I can hear each recording still. The deville speakers are positioned angled, not side by side in the cab and the distances I placed the mics from the grill were different. I will assume it is not phase cancellation.
 
Ctrl_Alt_Dlt said:
When i solo each track, I can hear each recording still. The deville speakers are positioned angled, not side by side in the cab and the distances I placed the mics from the grill were different. I will assume it is not phase cancellation.
Click to expand...
What you described is a recipe for phase cancellation.

Turn off the second mic (assuming you recorded each mic to it's own track), add some high shelf at around 8k and see if that doesn't clear it up.

If you want the amp to be bright, point the mic at the exact center of the speaker. The further away from the center of the speaker you get, the darker the sound.

If you just have 57's, just use one. There shouldn't be anything different coming from the other speaker, so micing it with the same mic won't add anything but the possiblity of phase strangeness.
BTW, if that is a stereo amp and there is a chorus or some other stereo effect, the two sides will cancel in mono at certain parts of the sweep.
 
Ctrl_Alt_Dlt said:
When i solo each track, I can hear each recording still.
Click to expand...

I'm not insisting that you're having phase problems. You're probably right that it's not that.

But, just for the record, soloing a track won't reveal phase issues. Phasing occurs between 2 sources. So, soloing a track can actually help make the track stand out more if it's getting phased out by another track. I'm just saying.....:)
 
Farview said:
What you described is a recipe for phase cancellation.

Turn off the second mic (assuming you recorded each mic to it's own track), add some high shelf at around 8k and see if that doesn't clear it up.

If you want the amp to be bright, point the mic at the exact center of the speaker. The further away from the center of the speaker you get, the darker the sound.

If you just have 57's, just use one. There shouldn't be anything different coming from the other speaker, so micing it with the same mic won't add anything but the possiblity of phase strangeness.
BTW, if that is a stereo amp and there is a chorus or some other stereo effect, the two sides will cancel in mono at certain parts of the sweep.
Click to expand...



Good to know. How can I double check if I have phase cancellation? Also< i used two-SM57's because one speaker is a Celestion G12 and the other is a Celestion V30.
 
RAMI said:
I'm not insisting that you're having phase problems. You're probably right that it's not that.

But, just for the record, soloing a track won't reveal phase issues. Phasing occurs between 2 sources. So, soloing a track can actually help make the track stand out more if it's getting phased out by another track. I'm just saying.....:)
Click to expand...

Thanks RAMI! How can I double check for phase cancellation now?
 
While there is a sound difference between the two speakers, you will still be better off picking one.

The only real way to tell if you have phase problems is by listening.

If it is really bad, you can tell by playing them both back panned to the center. If you mute one of the tracks and it gets LOUDER, you have a bad phase problem. It will be hard to tell if you have a subtle one.


From what you describe, the sound of the amp is muddy. That is probably the bulk of your problem. Adding midrange after the fact isn't going to be as effective as adding it at the amp. If it ends up too midrange heavy on the recording, you can always EQ it out. That works better than trying to add something that really wasn't there in the first place.

Of course, without actually hearing what you did, we are all just guessing at what your problem is. If you could post a clip of it, we might be able to tell you exactly what is going on.
 
Ctrl_Alt_Dlt said:
Good to know. How can I double check if I have phase cancellation? Also< i used two-SM57's because one speaker is a Celestion G12 and the other is a Celestion V30.
Click to expand...

Rather than trying to mic both speakers for one take, why not try recording from one speaker for the take that gets hard-panned one way, and the other speaker for the take that gets panned the other way?
 
Much of the advise in here is right on. I will add: How much headroom is in your mix? How high are the meters hitting? Try and keep it below -6 if you are digital. Many times "quiet guitars" actually turns out to be "loud everything else".
 
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