Good practice/live performance amp

[Gear_Junky]

$300-ish for a 6V6 poweramp mated with a decent sounding pre is pretty awesome.

1. You can wait for a coupon/sale at M123 or MF and grab it at a discount with free S&H. You can also keep checking all the sites for a "blem" - that's how I got mine and there was NOTHING wrong with it, save for a coffee stain on the manual.

2. The digital modeling preamp on the SCXD seems to be VERY good, judging by the fact that so far EVERYONE who's commented on the "Line Out" tone has said that it sounds very good (live/recorded). I tried mine live to go into the PA - it was good. I'd prefer to mic, but we were limited on that.

3. There's a mod to add a "Line In", which would bypass the digital section altogether - then SCXD turns into a smaller version of the "atomic reactor" or a "tube power engine" - simply use your favorite preamp (people use PODs and Vamps) with the dual 6v6 power amp.

MODS like this VOID WARRANTY.

 

[foo]

A solid-state pre-amp is not going to give you a tube sound.

Marshall-typs designs do drive the power tubes to get their sound. Fender-type amps (including Boogies) drive the pre-amp tubes to get their sound.
If you don't have any pre-amp tubes, it's kinda hard to overdrive them.

I'm not going to reject your view out-of-hand because I've not played through the particular amp you mention, but I have to say that all solid-state amps that I have tried do not get close enough to the tube sound to be contenders.
The only one I really liked was a Roland Jazz Chorus - which is a great amp for certain things (but a bluesy, tubes being driven sound ain't one of them).

To my ears. ymmv, of course.

 

[elenore19]

I had to special-order a footswitch for it (through GC),

Musiciansfriend now offers the footswitch so it's really easy to get a hold of too. Only 20 bucks!

Mine should be here within the next couple of days! Woo!

Just thought I'd let you know.

I LOVE my super champ. Absolutely amazing tube sound, that's all I can say. $300? Ridiculously cheap! Just thought I'd throw that in there as well.

Footswitch link.
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-FM65DSP-and-SuperChamp-XD-Footswitch?sku=482846

 

[Gear_Junky]

I know, I felt the exact same way - even got into an argument with a guy who was recommending SCXD. The guy turned out to have like 40-some years of experience in electrical engineering AND guitar/amp tone.

Then I tried the SCXD. Listen, it's not a solid-state amp. It's an amp with a digital preamp, which is a VERY GOOD simulator of various amp models it does and a Class A/B tube power section. It sounds EVERY BIT as a tube amp.

The only difference there could possibly be is when people compare it to high-end amps with upgraded preamp tubes, which give them a premium sound.

Try it.

A solid-state pre-amp is not going to give you a tube sound.

Marshall-typs designs do drive the power tubes to get their sound. Fender-type amps (including Boogies) drive the pre-amp tubes to get their sound.
If you don't have any pre-amp tubes, it's kinda hard to overdrive them.

I'm not going to reject your view out-of-hand because I've not played through the particular amp you mention, but I have to say that all solid-state amps that I have tried do not get close enough to the tube sound to be contenders.
The only one I really liked was a Roland Jazz Chorus - which is a great amp for certain things (but a bluesy, tubes being driven sound ain't one of them).

To my ears. ymmv, of course.

 

[foo]

. . . It's an amp with a digital preamp, which is a VERY GOOD simulator . . .

. . . and there's the rub.

It's a simulator.

However, based on your commitment to it, I shall take it for a spin next time i'm in a store.

Watch this space . . .

 

[Gear_Junky]

dude, i told you, i was JUST like you, I was saying the same thing. The guy to whom I was saying that (and I was like: "can anything digital really sound good"?), well, the guy was patient enough to explain that he himself was kind of a fender amp tube junkie and that the way SCXD is designed, with the 3 tubes it has, it makes the digital preamp sound like a tube amp. I am glad that he was kind enough to explain. I then ordered the amp (because i found a good price and M123 has money-back guarantee).

I didn't "have" to like the amp. I was shopping around at the time, looking at various 5watt class a's, like Valve Jr. But I liked it. LOVED it. And it gives me more features that I need.

Please make your next post after you try it

. . . and there's the rub.

It's a simulator.

However, based on your commitment to it, I shall take it for a spin next time i'm in a store.

Watch this space . . .

 

[DrewPeterson7]

dude, i told you, i was JUST like you, I was saying the same thing. The guy to whom I was saying that (and I was like: "can anything digital really sound good"?), well, the guy was patient enough to explain that he himself was kind of a fender amp tube junkie and that the way SCXD is designed, with the 3 tubes it has, it makes the digital preamp sound like a tube amp. I am glad that he was kind enough to explain. I then ordered the amp (because i found a good price and M123 has money-back guarantee).

I didn't "have" to like the amp. I was shopping around at the time, looking at various 5watt class a's, like Valve Jr. But I liked it. LOVED it. And it gives me more features that I need.

Please make your next post after you try it

Well that's the thing that has me interested - in my experience, a tube power section is WAY more important than a tube pre. I've played countless "hybrid" amps that slap a 12ax7 in the preamp and brag about "tube tone" that simply don't deliver. I've never played a hybrid design with tubes in the power section, however, and I think the idea is quite promising.

 

[Gear_Junky]

i think this was postulated (or theorized) before such "correct hybrid" amps became popular. I remember reading an opinion at a "tube tone" site, where the author states just that: a tube poweramp with solid-state preamp can sound good (unlike vise-versa).

I can understand that many "heavy" amps rely on preamp sections for heavy distortion. However, those musicians whose tone the public imitates, play those amps at stage volume (unless it's a studio recording, where they use completely different small amps, no?), where the power tubes can't help but be a major part of the sound. The part that is possibly more important and more noticeable.

I really "don't know anything", I'm just guessing in the dark here. But I am interested in this subject, so I'm trying to promote dialog.

So my guess also is that the fact that so many solid-state overdrive/distortion pedals are popular with people who can afford anything - that just proves that a solid-state preamp driving a tube power amp can sound as needed. (Aren't overdrive pedals basically gain amps?). Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here. This is not even opinion, more like a guess.

Well that's the thing that has me interested - in my experience, a tube power section is WAY more important than a tube pre. I've played countless "hybrid" amps that slap a 12ax7 in the preamp and brag about "tube tone" that simply don't deliver. I've never played a hybrid design with tubes in the power section, however, and I think the idea is quite promising.

 

[pohaku]

Well that's the thing that has me interested - in my experience, a tube power section is WAY more important than a tube pre. I've played countless "hybrid" amps that slap a 12ax7 in the preamp and brag about "tube tone" that simply don't deliver. I've never played a hybrid design with tubes in the power section, however, and I think the idea is quite promising.

The Marshall Artist 4203 is a hybrid amp with a SS preamp and a 30 watt tube power amp section. They made this model both as a head and as a 1 X 12 combo. Channel switching and reverb. It did have the Marshall crunch. Had 2 EL-34s if I remember right. I owned one at one time (one of the few things I've had the misfortune to sell) and I wouldn't mind buying another one if it wandered by. Worth checking out if you ever come accross one.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

The Marshall Artist 4203 is a hybrid amp with a SS preamp and a 30 watt tube power amp section. They made this model both as a head and as a 1 X 12 combo. Channel switching and reverb. It did have the Marshall crunch. Had 2 EL-34s if I remember right. I owned one at one time (one of the few things I've had the misfortune to sell) and I wouldn't mind buying another one if it wandered by. Worth checking out if you ever come accross one.

Yeah, that was the first such amp I'd ever heard of - I was talking with someone maybe 5-6 years ago about how I never understood why no one ever built a hybrid with a tube power section, and it turns out they owned one of those, and swore by it - evidently it stomped all over all of the other "hybrids" the guy had ever played. I've been curious to play something like that ever since, but I've never gotten a chance.

Actually, scratch that - I played a Spyder Valve combo the other day. The clean channel was awesome. Everything else blew. Still, I know better than to judge the entire concept off a notoriously-overgained Line6 preamp (I've never gotten on with the Spyder series).

 

[monkie]

I really appreciate all inputs. Well, I went to GC the other day and tried various amps from Crate to Marshalls. The only ones that was appealing to me was a vox AC30 but that's over my budget but the AC15 is right for the price and sound quality is actually quite nice too. Anyone here tried or own the AC15? Any thoughts on that? If I ever decided to go with this one, should I get the the AC15CC1 or the AC15CC1X with the Celestion Alnico Blue speaker?

Thanks

 

[Gear_Junky]

wow, if you can afford the Vox... I haven't played them, but who am I to talk you out of it? I know I like the tones that Brian May and the Beatles were getting

I guess, if you compared them both, you should decide if that speaker is worth the $350 difference? (wow!)

with that kinda cash why were you even considering cheaper amps?

 

[monkie]

wow, if you can afford the Vox... I haven't played them, but who am I to talk you out of it? I know I like the tones that Brian May and the Beatles were getting

I guess, if you compared them both, you should decide if that speaker is worth the $350 difference? (wow!)

with that kinda cash why were you even considering cheaper amps?

Yeah, I was wondering why too? Lol. It's not that I'm considering cheaper amps, people just kinda suggested the idea of other amps. The thing about me is that I want my the best that I can with my budget; I'm pretty sure everyone's like that also.

I didn't get to try the AC15CC1X because they didn't have that on display at GC. I would really love to hear the differences. You know any place that has that where I can try?

Thanks

 

[stevieb]

Just as a point of clarification- the Fender Super Champ XD is NOT a hybrid, in the typical sense of the term- hybrids have a tube pre amp and a SS power amp, or vice versa. The SCXD has both a tube pre and power amp. Technically speaking, it is not an all-tube amp, either, as purist define it- all-tube would mean NO SS electronics- rectifier, tremolo, reverb, etc. would all be tube-driven.

Anyhoo, although 'tis true you won't get real tube OD or tone from a SS amp, I have read much saying that, for the hard-playin', hard-travelin', hard-livin' touring musician on a budget, the best bet is a (GASP!) SS amp, Marshall Valvestates and Peaveys getting the most nods. The tone is pretty good (and on stage with a full band and all the noise, even you will have trouble appreciating the tone of a tube amp- your audience will never get it,) you and drop 'em down the stairs and they still work, and they are less likely to be stolen and more easily replaced if that does happen. Lighter, too. Peavey Bandit 112's are especially liked for this- and there is one on ebay right now, 5 days left, currently at only $19.95 plus 40 shipping.

http://cgi.ebay.com/PEAVEY-BANDIT-1...ryZ10171QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

There is also a Peavey 112 extension cab at $1.00:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Peavey-12-Speak...yZ121161QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

$100 to $200 seems to be the going rate on Bandit 112's on ebay.

Good luck.

 

[Gear_Junky]

Fender Super Champ XD IS a hybrid amp, just "reverse" hybrid (the better design).

It DOES have a solid-state preamp on both channels (the clean channel is closest to Voicing #4). The single 12ax7 is NOT a preamp tube - half of it is a 2nd gain stage (fed by the preamp), the other half - a phase inverter. I am not a "techie", but this is what the people who opened it have written. And they have posted again and again, confirming that SCXD has SOLID STATE digital preamp.

I have already read plenty of "tube purists" praise the SCXD tone/feel, though. This mostly concerns "fender tube tone", but I would imagine that with the right speaker upgrade "british" tube tones can be achieved too.

I went with Jensen p10r (more of a fender choice), but I think I like the "british" voicings I get with it too.

 

[stevieb]

Hmmm, okay, I stand corrected.

Nonetheless, the amp is getting lots of kudos. I think it's a winner.

 

[Gear_Junky]

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound harsh, but... see my new user title

Hmmm, okay, I stand corrected.

Nonetheless, the amp is getting lots of kudos. I think it's a winner.

 

[ggunn]

Fender Super Champ XD IS a hybrid amp, just "reverse" hybrid (the better design).

It DOES have a solid-state preamp on both channels (the clean channel is closest to Voicing #4). The single 12ax7 is NOT a preamp tube - half of it is a 2nd gain stage (fed by the preamp), the other half - a phase inverter. I am not a "techie", but this is what the people who opened it have written. And they have posted again and again, confirming that SCXD has SOLID STATE digital preamp.

A very slight correction. I'm pretty sure that both sides of the 12AX7 are gain stages, just one is phase inverting and the other isn't. The signal from the preamp section is sent to both sides and their output has the same gain but opposite polarities. One side's output goes to the "push" side of the power section and the other goes to the "pull".

 

[monkie]

So, let me get this straight; players who want high wattage on their amps are not going through the mains? Are their speakers going straight to the audiences? I just didn't think it will be as loud or as powerful as the mains. I ask because the guitarist in my band always goes through the mixer to the mains whether he uses a cab or not and I kinda got into the habit of getting everything through the mains. I mean, it does sound more even and better if everybody goes through the mains? That's why I just want to get a really nice tone low wattage amp because I'll just mic it up. When would you not go through the mains other than that because it's a small venue?

 

[lpdeluxe]

My experience with the power tube vs preamp tube...

I owned an early '70s Music Man HD-130 Reverb with a 2 x 12 cab for a number of years, and recently traded it off towards something I could actually carry around.

The MM was an early hybrid: solid state pre with a tube power amp, 130 watts. They were famous for never distorting. It wasn't possible to play them loudly enough for the power tubes to break up. It was known as the King of Loud Clean back in the '70s for that reason.

Like I said, mine was an early one, and it had a 12AX7 as a phase inverter tube in the pre. Without that tube, it would never distort: if you cranked the volume on the pre you could get nice controllable distortion at any level by using the master volume. If the pre wasn't turned over half way, it would not distort.

In contrast, my '63 Sears Silvertone Twin Twelve will distort at 10 o'clock on the volume knob, and sweet it is, too.

But I have two new amps, both bought since July 1: a Fender Jazzmaster Ultrallight solid state amp, and a Hot Rod Blues Jr NOS (tweed, tube rectifier and Jensen speaker). Each one kills, in its own way: the JM is more like the Deluxe Reverb reissue (but livelier sounding, to my ear) while the Blues Jr is chimey-er and more like the older Fenders.

Another way to put it is that the Jazzmaster is a great ensemble amp, and the Blues Jr excells at solo guitar, where you want a sound with more depth.

The JM doesn't lack for distortion horsepower. I play my Les Paul Deluxe through it on the Clean channel and my Epiphone Sheraton II (both with SD pickups) through the Drive channel and each one sounds terrific. It's a compressed, focused sound, while the Blues Jr sounds richer and has more highs.

The main drawback to the Jazzmaster is that it's close to $1100; the Blues Jr is $550, or right at half. But I love having them both. If you're on a budget, obviously, the Blues Jr would be the way to go; otherwise, if I could only have one, I'd take the JM.