GNX4 with Sonar 7 - Help I sound like crap!

[sendittokeith]

Hello, im a total newb to the recording scene, but i have been trying like heck to get a good recording. Im pretty convinced my lack of knowledge is my issue, so im hoping someone can give me some good advice here.

First of all, im not such a newb that i dont know that crappy input always equals crappy output - which brings me to my problem. I simply want to record my accoustic and vocals and have it sound good and clean at a good volume - sounds easy enough right? My goal is to get to the point where i can just record and worry about effects later so... here is what i have.

GNX4 Pedal
- XLR Mic Input
- Guitar Input
- All levels in/out adjusted
- XLR right/left go to my Rokit monitors

Sonar 7 - 2 tracks, etc.

The problem i seem to have is this. If i set what i think my optium level is on the pedal (based on the book that came with my gnx4 pedal) and dont see clipping (on pedal on indicator) -- -then i record into cakewalk.

If i export this audio (2 tracks) with the 2 channels set on 0, then play it back in my car it sounds horrible - like the input is way too high... so i adjusted my inputs into sonar way down, still same. If i save the audio and turn the sliders way down then it sounds alright quality but i loose the volume.

Questions:
1.) When you export your audio from sonar7, do you generally have to turn the levels below zero?
2.) Will it always sound like crap before adding effects? I assumed it would just be good high volumn dry ouput
3.) Could my GNX4 be limiting my quality? Im more or less just using it as a passthrough.

If i play the audio out of my Rokit speakers it sounds pretty good, but as soon as i play it in my car (which has a nice speaker system) it sounds very basy, crappy, etc.

Any tips/ideas? I feel like im missing something very elementary.

 

[Washburn100]

There is no reason you can't get decent recordings with what you have.

First, like you said input needs to be right so get you input levels correct (sounds like you did)

After you have everything you want recorded, you do have to go through a mix process. Set the output levels for correct listening etc. You should send your 2 tracks to a master bus and here is where you can adjust the overall level of both tracks mixed.

To answer your specific questions:
1) The levels are set for proper playback and yes this is usually below zero. Remember at zero you have no room for peaks etc. ( The master bus is where you bring levels to the finished level.
2) No, Effects definately help, but a good dry recording should sound decent.
3) From what I read about the GNX4, it should give you very good results. One thing though, for acoustic guitar which you said you were recording, the best results will come from microphones.

There is a whole subject of how things sound through your monitors, room treatment, mixing and mastering. I would suggest going through the tutorials to get the basics, then it is just a matter of working with it. Every recording wil get better.
Good Luck

 

[sendittokeith]

There is no reason you can't get decent recordings with what you have.

First, like you said input needs to be right so get you input levels correct (sounds like you did)

After you have everything you want recorded, you do have to go through a mix process. Set the output levels for correct listening etc. You should send your 2 tracks to a master bus and here is where you can adjust the overall level of both tracks mixed.

To answer your specific questions:
1) The levels are set for proper playback and yes this is usually below zero. Remember at zero you have no room for peaks etc. ( The master bus is where you bring levels to the finished level.
2) No, Effects definately help, but a good dry recording should sound decent.
3) From what I read about the GNX4, it should give you very good results. One thing though, for acoustic guitar which you said you were recording, the best results will come from microphones.

There is a whole subject of how things sound through your monitors, room treatment, mixing and mastering. I would suggest going through the tutorials to get the basics, then it is just a matter of working with it. Every recording wil get better.
Good Luck

Well ive found that to record with Mic's and do what i want, my GNX4 was not cutting it. So now im using PreSonus FireStudio for my inputs, using X/Y to mic the guitar, etc.... The recordings are getting better and better but i still have a lot of adjusting/learning to do. One thing i am finding is its VERY HARD to get a quality clean but LOUD signal. I was wondering if i just need to keep trying or if the studio quality CD's we buy do something to raise the audio level but keep the quality?

 

[Washburn100]

Well ive found that to record with Mic's and do what i want, my GNX4 was not cutting it. So now im using PreSonus FireStudio for my inputs, using X/Y to mic the guitar, etc.... The recordings are getting better and better but i still have a lot of adjusting/learning to do. One thing i am finding is its VERY HARD to get a quality clean but LOUD signal. I was wondering if i just need to keep trying or if the studio quality CD's we buy do something to raise the audio level but keep the quality?

Change the way you think. Your signal does not need to be loud. CD's today are compressed to death so don't use that as your guide. (google loudness wars and you will get an understanding)

When recording in 24 bit, you have all kinds of headroom so you do not need a super strong (loud) recording. As a rule, your recording level should never even come close to zero. I try for -6dBU, but often have -14 or less dBU.

After you have recordered and processed, you can bring the level back up in your mix. Add compressor, eq limiter etc to get it hot. Better yet, when listening, just turn it up rather than trying to record it loud!

 

[RAMI]

Change the way you think. Your signal does not need to be loud. CD's today are compressed to death so don't use that as your guide. (google loudness wars and you will get an understanding)

When recording in 24 bit, you have all kinds of headroom so you do not need a super strong (loud) recording. As a rule, your recording level should never even come close to zero. I try for -6dBU, but often have -14 or less dBU.

After you have recordered and processed, you can bring the level back up in your mix. Add compressor, eq limiter etc to get it hot. Better yet, when listening, just turn it up rather than trying to record it loud!

Read this ^^^^^^^^ OK, now read it again ^^^^^^.

Also, remember that your tracking volume has nothing to do with your final mix volume. If (you think) you want a loud final mix, getting your individual tracks as hot as possible isn't the way to do it. Record your tracks so that they peak at around -6db, since this isn't the stage at which you should be worrying about volume.

So, even if a "loud" final product is what you're after, the tracking stage isn't when you should be trying to accomplish that. It happens in the mastering stage, and to a certain extent in the mixing stage. Like Washburn said:

CD's today are compressed to death so don't use that as your guide. (google loudness wars and you will get an understanding)

 

[sendittokeith]

Change the way you think. Your signal does not need to be loud. CD's today are compressed to death so don't use that as your guide. (google loudness wars and you will get an understanding)

When recording in 24 bit, you have all kinds of headroom so you do not need a super strong (loud) recording. As a rule, your recording level should never even come close to zero. I try for -6dBU, but often have -14 or less dBU.

After you have recordered and processed, you can bring the level back up in your mix. Add compressor, eq limiter etc to get it hot. Better yet, when listening, just turn it up rather than trying to record it loud!

read and understood - thank you.

 

[sendittokeith]

Read this ^^^^^^^^ OK, now read it again ^^^^^^.

Also, remember that your tracking volume has nothing to do with your final mix volume. If (you think) you want a loud final mix, getting your individual tracks as hot as possible isn't the way to do it. Record your tracks so that they peak at around -6db, since this isn't the stage at which you should be worrying about volume.

So, even if a "loud" final product is what you're after, the tracking stage isn't when you should be trying to accomplish that. It happens in the mastering stage, and to a certain extent in the mixing stage. Like Washburn said:

This is great, as a noob i assummed louder initial input is better. thanks