Getting realistic results from programmed drums

amonte

amonte

New member
Not sure why I couldn't post this on Friday, but for some reason it kept getting lost in the void.

Until I raise some funds, I'm stuck using a step sequencer and drum samples to make my drum tracks. Currently I am using a library of samples called "Real Live Drums" (it's a few years old now) and FL Studio 4.

I'm always looking for ways to improve the quality of my drum tracks, and to make them sound as realistic as possible. Lately I have been taking a lot more time in the programming, trying to capture the feel of live drums by varying the samples used (for example, not using the same snare sample for EVERY hit) and making slight changes to the velocities of the hits for more of a natural feel. To get better at this, I'm practicing by attempting to recreate the drumbeats on other recordings. Also, to have more options in terms of where I can place a hit, I've increase the the measures to 16 in FL Studio 4 and compensate for the time difference by cranking up the BPM. It definately takes longer to program this way, but it gives a lot more options than the default settings.

Does anyone else have any tips on how to get realistic results from a sequencer program? Any sample tracks that I can check out as well?
 
Well, first of all you asked for a sample track....



That is done on Drumkit From Hell Superior. I can give you the MIDI track to that if you want it. (Won't do you any good if you're not using DFHS)

I think to get realistic results you must start with a good library of sounds. With sampled hits of every velocity and timbre. You have to think about the drumming like a drummer, and program hits accordingly. DFHS is great in this respect because you have so much control over the individual hits (left hand/right hand/etc...) and velocity determines the sample that is played not just the volume. Sample libraries that rely on volume differences of the same sample will never sound realistic. Also don't just randomize for the sake of randomizing. Do it like a drummer would. For instance accenting the beat during a 16th note high hat sequence, that sort of thing.
 
WOW. That sounds great! So this was programmed? That's amazing - I would have guessed that someone had played it on an e-Kit and that the MIDI track was fed into DFKHS. That sounds fantastic.

I don't have DKFHS currently - it's on my short list though. Unfortunately, cash is on my short list as well. :D

What I've got to work with is a disc called Real Live Drums - the sample quality is very good, but it doesn't cover all that many velocities/variations. I'd say for each drum, there's about 12 samples included. I don't think I could get near these results with it, but then again, I'm just looking to make a drum track that sounds close to the real thing - or more accurately, a track that blends in well enough that it won't immeadiately reveal itself as having been programmed.
 
my best advice it to try annd play the hi hats and rides live and add live percussion. It will go a long way to making things sound natural.
 
That's a very interesting idea...I'd actually given some thought to trying to add some percussion, but hadn't thought of playing the HH live...
 
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I have faced the same problem. I am very cheap though, so any of my ideas are usually based on things that are low cost, or free. This unfortunately weeds out some of the good stuff, like drumkit from hell. I don't know much about the drumkit from hell though, because the price has scared me away enough to not learn if it handles like a drum machine, or if it's more like patterns that are already there and you just change the tempo and levels basically. If so, I wouldn't like that. I need to be able to plant the cymbols and such in exactly the right spots. Perhaps you can do that, I don't know.

Given that, I have been using Rythym Rascal (http://www.rhythmrascal.com/). It's like 20 bucks. It has two cool features during mixdown, which include slight tempo and level adjustments for a more organic feel. Unfortunately, it ends up being kind of random, and not exactly where you'd want a louder snare for example. I also found some good kits online. I tried just now to find the one I liked (called something like NTS Kit 7 or something, but I can't find the source). For each drum piece, there were numerous different hits, from soft to hard.

When programming, I don't use repeating exact same patterns very often, especially the cymbol hits. I also have steered clear of very fast double bass or blast beats - those always sound fake to me. The less the drums are hit, the better I say. Keep the fake stuff to a minimum so the real stuff, your playing/singing can shine through more and take the attention.

After I program, I edit the waveforms in cool edit, audacity, etc. - with compression, reverb, and equalization. Most programs have some pre-sets that supposedly have a more analog tape feel - I go for any of those types. Takes the sharpness out. I like to dull the drums and give them a more low fi quality. That may not work for certain types of music though.

My latest trick is using more hand percussion (as the guy above said - it works great). Those egg shakers are very cool, as well as tambourines, bongos, hand drums, hitting stuff with sticks - it's all good, and all real at least. When the real stuff is overtop the programmed drums it sounds a lot more realistic and organic.

I'll post my latest drum work when I get home. They aren't too bad. I'm still working on the song, but the drums are done.
 
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Another thing you could try doing, is run the cymbals and hihats out through a pair of speakers into a room, and mic the room - then add that in to add some "real room sound" to the cymbals.

You could also do this for the drums, sort of using the room for a natural reverb chamber.




Tim
 
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Tim Brown said:
Another thing you could try doing, is run the cymbals and hihats out through a pair of speakers into a room, and mic the room - then add that in to add some "real room sound" to the cymbals.

You could also do this for the drums, sort of using the room for a natural reverb chamber.

Tim
Click to expand...
Brilliant! :D
 
I had actually thought of this in the past, but never tried it. What kind of speakers do you think one would need to make this worthwhile? I don't have much available - I do have a stereo that I could possibly use, or two different sets of computer speakers (one set has much better bass response). Other than that, I've just got guitar amps.

It would be very interesting to hear what this sounds like...
 
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Here's some drums I did recently in rhythym rascal. Not quite on par with the drums from hell, but once all the guitars, bass, and vocals are added, they won't sound half bad I'm guessing. There's a small hand drum part in the middle, and shakers during the (future) choruses.

 
amonte said:
I had actually thought of this in the past, but never tried it. What kind of speakers do you think one would need to make this worthwhile? I don't have much available - I do have a stereo that I could possibly use, or two different sets of computer speakers (one set has much better bass response). Other than that, I've just got guitar amps.

It would be very interesting to hear what this sounds like...
Click to expand...


A pair of stereo speakers should work.

I've done this with the drumtracks as well, but I was using PA speakers for it.


Tim
 
This looks pretty cool. So what is it, just samples or is there software involved to? I see some "Kit Layouts" on the website. I'm download it now.

As far as micing the stereo, I have an older version of this stereo:

http://www.sharperimage.com/us/en/catalog/productview/sku=SA255/catid=204/pcatid=2

(it was a gift...I wouldn't have picked something like this out. :p )

this is probably going to sound really stupid, but would it make sense to try laying the speakers on the floor as if they were a drum kit, and micing them over the top as I would with overhead mics? Or is that taking this whole thing a bit too far?
 
amonte said:
This looks pretty cool. So what is it, just samples or is there software involved to? I see some "Kit Layouts" on the website. I'm download it now.
Click to expand...

Basically a huge file (zipped I think) of drum WAV files. The file names suggest what they are, they aren't really organized. You have to go through all of them and listen to see what ones you like, then you stick those WAV files in your drum machine program or sequencer. Some are the best I've heard; some I would never use, but there's a lot to choose from. I think it was some guy that just sat down and recorded his kit.
 
You know what? I like these samples better than my samples disc. The samples on my disc aren't bad at all, but there's NOWHERE near as many velocity variations. These also have a very "natural" sound to them, and I think they might blend a bit more seamlessly in my recordings than the samples I have.

I also played around with the SoundFont version in FruityLoops, and that sounds great and works well to, especially when you start to vary the velocities.

I can't wait to really dig into this kit tonight at home.
 
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