Getting a Good Rhodes sound?

S

saxman72

New member
Anyone have good suggestions on how to get Killer Rhodes sounds? I have an old "seventy-three" and not the suitcase model. For most of my tune demos I plugged into a tube pre, cranked in a little distortion and went straight into the 'puter. Not a bad sound, but not a great one either. Now that I'm recording my tunes for "real" I definitely want a better sound. Basically something that sits in a mix better. Usually there's way too much bottom that I have to eq out and the levels are inconsistent (some notes stick out more than others). It just never sounds as smooth and creamy as I'd like it.

I've tried a few different amps, mics, pres, compressors, etc, but in the words of Bono, "I still haven't found what I'm looking for."

Granted, I haven't put an enormous amount of time into finding the right set up, but I'm hoping some people here can help me get there a little quicker!

Thanks!

Saxman72
 
What sound are you after? You want the funky hard sound or the cheezy ballad sound?

I don't have a clue about how to get it, but I'm really interested in what tricks will come up here...
 
Unfortunately, I don't have any first hand experience with it either (I cheat and use my tweaked Alesis QSR presets).

I think you'd be in the best boat to run it through an amp and mic it. I'm guessing you're looking for an authentic vintage type (probably funk-ish) type sound, so do it like they did it.

Plus, it seems like it'd be easier to control a heavy bottom end, and you'd get the benefit of room acoustics.

Dig up an old JC-120 and see what happens.

...just an idea...
 
I've had less success miking it so far, but that's probably because there are more variables to work with (and screw up). I actually found one old demo of mine that has a pretty good Rhodes sound... Now if only I can remember how I got it! :(

A JC-120 sounds like a good idea. I'll have to make due with what I've got though. I actually have a Dean Markley amp that has true stereo chorus like the JC's but it has smaller speakers and sounds "boxier" than a JC. I used to use that Dean Markley live when I played in this one group. Sounded okay for live playing but not great. I have a couple more amps that I haven't tried yet, but now that I think of it, they may sound better cuz of the bigger speakers. For the recordings I'll just add the chorus, phaser, or whatever later anyway.

Basically, I'm going for a funky jazz sound. Maybe like The Brand New Heavies. Or a 70's R&B sound. Stuff like Steely Dan and Earth Wind & Fire. What strikes me in all the good recordings is the dynamic control and how well it sits in the track. I have a couple good compressors so maybe that'll be another variable I'll have to dial in.
 
I usually get pretty good results with my QSR's (tweaked) digital re-creation of Ray Charles' rig, but I'd love to be in your shoes - even if it meant having to fight with it to get the sound I wanted.

If you can get a hold of an isolated piece of audio that sounds close to what you're looking for, it might be worth an hour of tweaks to try and come close - at least it'd give you a good starting point.

I suppose making it sit right in the mix isn't always the easiest thing - the Rhodes is kind of a sonically strange animal, but worth the effort (IMO)

I wish I could be more help. I would like to hear a piece of it when you're done though.

Best O' Luck to ya
 
A lot of the sound your looking for comes from compression with a fast attack. Go heavy on the Ratio and dont set the gain to boost the signal untill you hear it in the mix. You might not need to touch it.

The release will depend on the song and your playing but start from here and you'll get a lot closer to what your looking for.
 
Shailat,

Thanks for the info... Now would you say to mic it, go direct, or depends?...

I've gotten "good" sounds by going direct into a Neve 1272, TLA EQ1, or ART Tube MP, and then into a compressor; but "Great" sounds have been eluding me. So far, miking it has gotten me less desireable results, but like I said earlier, there are more variables to manage, and maybe I haven't found the right combination yet.

Thanks guys!
 
i ran into similar issues you are facing when recording a rhodes not too long ago. My advice is to mic it using a small tube amp. Turn down the lows on the amp. I used a 68 Fender Princeton, put a 57 in front of it and bam, there it is. The tube warmth helps a lot and the cheezy amp eq is good enough to unbeef the lows of the rhodes. No need to boost the highs or anything. Mic slightly off center about 4-6 inches from the grill. The compression thing might be a good idea too, but I did that after I had it on tape.

--MIKE
 
cool... I recently bought a fender Blues Jr which the rhodes sounds good through. I don't remember if I've gotten around to miking it that way though. That'll be my first set-up.
 
I suggest you go direct with a DI or line in. Forget the mic thingy.....

Rhodes has many different sounds and here are some things you should try out.

Starting from EQ - Depending if its a solo or in the mix kind of Rhodes.

Solo - I would leave it alone
In the mix - you probably have to tame it with a cut at around 60 and 120Hz to get some controll and no masking from other low freq instruments. Also try to boot the tine sound around 5k but you also might have to cut some 1-3k if there is another instrument going on strong there.

Effects for the Rhodes - I typically use some of these:
*reverb
* delay
* Chorus
* Flanger
* Phase shifter
* A drop of distortion
* A panner to shift the sound from side to side (automaticly)
* Harmonizer
* Exciter

Compression is used a lot to sit it in the mix as I wrote to you above.

Your going to have to experiment with a combination of those effects. Like try a Eq-reverb-Flange....try a pitch shift effect and pan them two tracks hard left right by tunning one side down a bit and the other in the other direction panned to the other side hard.......

good luck
 
I've recorded my Rhodes both close mic'd and direct. There are good and bad points to both methods.

Direct allows for more control overall in the mix. However, close mic'ing with the right amp (I used a KB300) will produce the sound that you expect from a real Rhodes. Lots of bite and plenty of icy ring.

It helps when your amp is in a very live room (as mine is).

Carl
 
Its hard to get the clasic rhodes sound from a stage model. the classic sound is the suitcase. The suitcase included a solid state pre, with built in stereo trem, and an 80 watt solid state stereo amp. Not a tube near the thing. The cab was a closed afair with 4 12 inch fender speaks(jense, IIRC), two faceing forward, two facing back. This way, you had two speaks for the player, and two for the audience. IIRC the later suitcase was upped to 100 watts, but the definateive was the Mark I. I have one in my livingroom that I need to fix the pre on, and I have owned both stage andsuitcase before, the suitcase has "The Sound".
 
I regularly record a 75 Rhodes through a Behringer V-amp and it sounds great. I use the tube preamp setting with a bit of gain for that dirty sound, and dial in a bit of reverb and vibrato. Record to a stereo track. That's pretty much all I do and it hasn't failed me yet.
I guess you can do the same with a pod, j-station or whatever.

Mark
 
Bdgr said:
Not a tube near the thing.
Click to expand...
Yeah, now that I've been listening to a lot of rhodes stuff, it's apparent that distortion or overdrive is NOT a big part of the sound. Funny huh? Most of the bite is actually just a result of hitting the tines hard.

My biggest challenge is going to be getting the note balance better... Some hammers are not in as good of shape as others and there's a range in the upper half that just jumps out. Anyone know of a source for rhodes parts?
 
I know that there's also a big part of the sound in the way the rhodes is set up, distance between the hamers and the thingies. One of my favourite repairdudes does this kind of setup... He told me after I complained to him about rhodes being to hard on my wrists... So if you want that funky sound, and you want to keep your wrists intact, make sure it's setup right. ;)
 
...just out of curiosity, (and not to change the subject), but do you Rhodes guys have a particular song or artist whose sound you regard as the one to strive for?
 
Seanmorse79 said:
...just out of curiosity, (and not to change the subject), but do you Rhodes guys have a particular song or artist whose sound you regard as the one to strive for?
Click to expand...
Nah, not really... there are so many different sounds that are great. It kinda depends on whether it's a chordal/background part, or a more melodic/upfront part. And there are so many cool ways to effect it (like Shailat listed). Sometimes dry is really cool, sometimes super wet is funky as all hell, particularly with phase, chorus, flange, delay, etc...
 
Seanmorse79 said:
...just out of curiosity, (and not to change the subject), but do you Rhodes guys have a particular song or artist whose sound you regard as the one to strive for?
Click to expand...

Chick Corea is just about my favorite Rhodes scholar.

I don't know if I strive for his sound, because there isn't a whole lot I can do to make my Rhodes sound different, short of playing with the pickups and tines.

But his style and approach is what I strive for when I go at it on mine. Also Jan hammer is another influence, but like Roel, my wrists start to ache when I wail on my board to approximate his approach. Ouch.

Carl
 
Yeah, thats another part of the story, beat the shit out of it. But, I kinda do that my self anyway. I have had to wipe blood off keyboard more than once(I get a little carried away on occasion). Piano is a percussion instrument, damnit, and I play it like one.

Except my hammond. I am pretty gentle with it.
 
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