Foundation nightmare and studio rebuild
- Thread starter jimmys69
- Start date
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Not to steal your thread...but I know how you feel. 
Back in August, I took notice of a steady water trickle coming from under a bunch of terraced retaining walls in my front yard.
The parking area is up above all that.
First I thought it was rain runoff or maybe a bit of underground spring stuff...but then I realized it was in-line with my well.
I shut off the pump...the water stopped...and I new I was in for some digging to fix a main water line leak...which thanks to the terraced retaining walls, ran right under them (previous owner, not me).
I hand dug for days just trying to locate the fucker...couldn't use machinery so as not to destroy the retaining walls (I mean a LOT of walls, and lots of railroad ties underneath the dirt also).
It was some of the most painful digging I've ever done by hand...just shovel after shovel of broken shale rock after the first foot or so of topsoil. That's what they back-filled with in-between the retaining walls.
After 4 holes, 8' down...I found the pipe line....and in the end the leak traced out under my parking area, so at least when I got there, outside of the retaining walls, I was able to rent a small excavator, dig it up, cut out the cracked pipe, splice in a new piece, and then bury it.
Not to mention....some of the outer retaining wall ended up getting damaged...just no way to avoid that, but it was repairable.
The whole think lasted the entire month of September. Did it all myself. My hands and back still hurt.
Anyway...like I said, I know how you feel...though at least my headache was all outside.
Yours certainly looks like a much bigger headache!!! Fuck!
Good luck. I'm sure you'll be back to normal at some point. I mean, it is 100% repairable, right?
Back in August, I took notice of a steady water trickle coming from under a bunch of terraced retaining walls in my front yard.
The parking area is up above all that.
First I thought it was rain runoff or maybe a bit of underground spring stuff...but then I realized it was in-line with my well.
I shut off the pump...the water stopped...and I new I was in for some digging to fix a main water line leak...which thanks to the terraced retaining walls, ran right under them (previous owner, not me).
I hand dug for days just trying to locate the fucker...couldn't use machinery so as not to destroy the retaining walls (I mean a LOT of walls, and lots of railroad ties underneath the dirt also).
It was some of the most painful digging I've ever done by hand...just shovel after shovel of broken shale rock after the first foot or so of topsoil. That's what they back-filled with in-between the retaining walls.
After 4 holes, 8' down...I found the pipe line....and in the end the leak traced out under my parking area, so at least when I got there, outside of the retaining walls, I was able to rent a small excavator, dig it up, cut out the cracked pipe, splice in a new piece, and then bury it.
Not to mention....some of the outer retaining wall ended up getting damaged...just no way to avoid that, but it was repairable.
The whole think lasted the entire month of September. Did it all myself. My hands and back still hurt.
Anyway...like I said, I know how you feel...though at least my headache was all outside.
Yours certainly looks like a much bigger headache!!! Fuck!
Good luck. I'm sure you'll be back to normal at some point. I mean, it is 100% repairable, right?
jimmys69
MOODerator
Not a happy couple of months. I will tell the whole story soon. It not a good situation, but my family is safe and I get to rebuild in a better way now.
Compressive soil type in Colorado expands in water, and contracts when dry. So after the soil dries against the foundation, it settles under its own weight. Then when wet again it expands. Kind of like a car jack...
Just two of the walls. 8 3/4" at top of wall at the worst point. Will explain the whole shit at some point. Already did on my FB page but haven't gotten around to it here yet.
Oh, BTW, in 1971 there was a lake under my neighborhood. The development was built in 1977 on top of it. After it was drained obviously. But that obviously created issues here. Ugh...
And yes, it is repaired permanently. Well almost. $43,000.00 later...
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
In that situation, would/should there have been something in-between the dirt and walls...or would you just do a thicker foundation to avoid that kind of stuff out there?
I'm guessing you bought the house already built....or?
Houses are great...but man, they can really fucking strain your budget and your lifestyle when unexpected repairs show up.
It's never something small and inexpensive.
I hope it's not going to be all out-of-pocket for you. Heck...I have no idea if insurances cover that stuff...or do they stick it in the "act of god" category...???
$43k is WAY to much to pony up unexpectedly. Sorry for your troubles man.
mjbphotos
Moderator
Scary - if it had collapsed, the house would have been toast. Never heard of that compressive soil issue before. Around here, bad contractors backfill with rock, leaving lots of space - which can get filled with water during heavy storms. The house I lived in during high school had an addition built with concrete block foundation walls this way, about 16' x 24'. One short wall collapsed. What a mess.
JDOD
therecordingrebels.com
Jimmy, you know I'm a professional geologist right? If you want any more info on the compressive soil issue feel free to ask..
Actually, I'll do the short summary as its worth people knowing.
Clay or Silt soils (cohesive soils - i.e. not sand or gravel) are prone to swell and shrink due to changes in moisture content.
To assess how much swell/shrink you're going to get you do a test on the soil to determine its "Atterberg Limits"
This will tell you what the plastic limit, liquid limit, and plasticity index of the soil is.
The plasticity index will tell you whether you have low, medium or high volume change potential soil.
Foundations in soils of a high vol. change potential will have to be placed deeper than low vol. change potential.
This is further complicated when you have trees in the vicinity of the house.
Trees are generally divided up based on their water demand - low, medium and high water demand trees.
So, if your foundation is within the zone of influence of a tree you will have to overdeepen the foundation to compensate for the volume change that the soil will likely exhibit.
The zone of influence is dependent on the tree species and its size - e.g a fully grown high water demand tree (like an Oak) will have a large zone of influence where you will need to overdeepen the foundations.
The degree of overdeepening is further increased depending on the volume change potential of the soils.
Additionally, where you have a medium or high volume change potential soil you also need to have void formers alongside the foundation to stop the swell and shrink of the soil pressing against the sides of the foundation (this seems like the issue jimmy has) but you also get it under the floor slabs of the house so you can't have a ground bearing slab - you need a suspended slab.
I don't know how strict the rules are in the US but its all pretty well controlled by various agencies in the UK.
I know you guys over there tend to have a lot more space to build stuff on your land though and I bet you have less stringent laws on what you're allowed to build than us.
Just note that you really need to get your plasticity index testing done on your soil and you really need to know what the water demand and zone of influence of your trees is gonna be.
Note that even if you're removing trees as part of the development you still have to take their water demand into account as they will have desiccated the soil which will lead to a lot of swell over the next rainy period after they've been removed.
Any more questions, PM me!
Actually, I'll do the short summary as its worth people knowing.
Clay or Silt soils (cohesive soils - i.e. not sand or gravel) are prone to swell and shrink due to changes in moisture content.
To assess how much swell/shrink you're going to get you do a test on the soil to determine its "Atterberg Limits"
This will tell you what the plastic limit, liquid limit, and plasticity index of the soil is.
The plasticity index will tell you whether you have low, medium or high volume change potential soil.
Foundations in soils of a high vol. change potential will have to be placed deeper than low vol. change potential.
This is further complicated when you have trees in the vicinity of the house.
Trees are generally divided up based on their water demand - low, medium and high water demand trees.
So, if your foundation is within the zone of influence of a tree you will have to overdeepen the foundation to compensate for the volume change that the soil will likely exhibit.
The zone of influence is dependent on the tree species and its size - e.g a fully grown high water demand tree (like an Oak) will have a large zone of influence where you will need to overdeepen the foundations.
The degree of overdeepening is further increased depending on the volume change potential of the soils.
Additionally, where you have a medium or high volume change potential soil you also need to have void formers alongside the foundation to stop the swell and shrink of the soil pressing against the sides of the foundation (this seems like the issue jimmy has) but you also get it under the floor slabs of the house so you can't have a ground bearing slab - you need a suspended slab.
I don't know how strict the rules are in the US but its all pretty well controlled by various agencies in the UK.
I know you guys over there tend to have a lot more space to build stuff on your land though and I bet you have less stringent laws on what you're allowed to build than us.
Just note that you really need to get your plasticity index testing done on your soil and you really need to know what the water demand and zone of influence of your trees is gonna be.
Note that even if you're removing trees as part of the development you still have to take their water demand into account as they will have desiccated the soil which will lead to a lot of swell over the next rainy period after they've been removed.
Any more questions, PM me!
Tadpui
Well-known member
That's gonna take a lot of duct tape and chewing gum!
But seriously, I hope the process is as painless as possible. I live on clay soil and have a fully underground basement, and I've been lucky for over 15 years that everything is staying put. I think my house actually sits on stone though.
hope you and your family are OK, hospitalizations and all.
But seriously, I hope the process is as painless as possible. I live on clay soil and have a fully underground basement, and I've been lucky for over 15 years that everything is staying put. I think my house actually sits on stone though.
hope you and your family are OK, hospitalizations and all.
jimmys69
MOODerator
Ly is what, 4 now? What's going on?
Just out of curiosity, how good are those cymbals at holding the wall up?
LOL! Evidently not very well... That pic was my initial emergency support braces when the foundation broke in really bad.
The foundation had some issues that I knew about, but the walls were covered with panels and you couldn't really see the spots that were getting really bad as they were buried in a non use able space that couldn't be seen behind the basement bathroom. Not to mention one of the isolation room in the corner that was covered up with paneling.
Well, one day we smelled sewer gas really badly upstairs. I went downstairs and 'SHIT'! I could see the wall of the downstairs bathroom was pushed in a good 3". I squeezed myself past the washer and dryer to get to the plumbing and behold; a huge foundation crack and the obvious 8 3/4" intrusion into the space at the top of the wall. Immediately went to Home Depot to place supports as quickly as I could before the house caved in and researched contractors to fix the issue. I had not yet moved the cymbals...
So, then I had to open up the wall in my closet to find the sewer main leak as it was not apparent in the basement. All was intact there. There was a 1.5" drop in the upstairs of the house that broke an ABS wye connection. So the fall of the foundation wall basically dropped the upper level by that much at that point. Easy fix. Rubber coupling and new wye right? ...
Well then the next day my wife was feeling a bit ill from the sewer gas (we thought) so I made her some chicken soup. One of my dogs ate her soup so we shut the bedroom door and look a nap with our little girl. 45 minutes later I woke up completely dizzy and disoriented. Woke the girls and went to dial 911. I could barely read the numbers on my phone.
Long story short, the foundation wall intrusion had also disconnected the exhaust vent from our water heater and the only penetration above was via the sewer pipe and directly into our closed bedroom. We were lucky we ever woke up...
As to my Lyrissa, she has what they call a Fifth Disease, Erythema Infectosom. Whatever that means. Bad rash and shitty virus that can be horrible for kids. Well, she got it really bad and the three of us haven't slept for over 30 minutes straight for three days.
But she is doing much better today! Much thanks to all of you for responding. Sorry I haven't been responsive. It is just really friggen crazy around here lately.
Best to you all.
Oh and yeah, she had her 4th birthday party the Saturday before she got sick at Casa Bonita. Wonder where she picked up this virus???
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miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
I remember a time we paid good money to feel like that.
Kidding aside...sounds like you dodged a bullet there.
Jimmy, Exactly where in Colorado are you. I ask because my son has purchased a property in the Denver Tech area and it is a newish sub-division on what was cleared land when he first saw the block a couple of years ago. I am sure that he would like to know if his block is on similar filling to yours.