Forum for Vocal Recording Techniques???

J

jb2004

New member
IF this has been asked/answered elsewhere, please let me know...

I was wondering if it was possible to have some sort of forum started that dealt exclusively with vocal recording techniques. There are so many different, phenomenal sounding vocal techniques used on different albums, but as much as I love them, I have no idea how to go about recreating that sort of sound.

For example: Lindsey Buckingham on Rumours, Kurt Cobain on Nevermind, Tom Waits on Bone Machine, Elliott Smith on Either/Or, Julian Casablancas on Is This It, NUMEROUS Beatles albums..... the list is endless.

In my opinion, the vocal recording styles of these albums are amazing, but I don't know how to go about recreating it myself.

Rather than searching endlessly on the forums, or creating a new post for EVERY interesting vocal technique/style, I'd love it if there was a forum dedicated to this avenue.

Again, if this sort of thing is addressed somewhere on the website, please let me know. But if not..... well..... what do you think?

Thanks,



j.
 
There's a forum for recording techniques. You can't have one just for vocals, because then you need one just for guitars, one just for bass, one just for cowbell, etc
 
Fair enough.... I just thought it would be easier than dumping all vocal-type questions into "recording techniques"
 
jb2004 said:
For example: Lindsey Buckingham on Rumours, Kurt Cobain on Nevermind, Tom Waits on Bone Machine, Elliott Smith on Either/Or, Julian Casablancas on Is This It, NUMEROUS Beatles albums..... the list is endless.

In my opinion, the vocal recording styles of these albums are amazing, but I don't know how to go about recreating it myself.
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To be honest, I believe the only way to recreate those styles is to have those people in the studio. It's not really the recording techniques, it's the musicianship.

It ain't the drums what made Bonham great, know what I mean?
 
jb2004 said:
IF this has been asked/answered elsewhere, please let me know...

I was wondering if it was possible to have some sort of forum started that dealt exclusively with vocal recording techniques. There are so many different, phenomenal sounding vocal techniques used on different albums, but as much as I love them, I have no idea how to go about recreating that sort of sound.

For example: Lindsey Buckingham on Rumours, Kurt Cobain on Nevermind, Tom Waits on Bone Machine, Elliott Smith on Either/Or, Julian Casablancas on Is This It, NUMEROUS Beatles albums..... the list is endless.

In my opinion, the vocal recording styles of these albums are amazing, but I don't know how to go about recreating it myself.

Rather than searching endlessly on the forums, or creating a new post for EVERY interesting vocal technique/style, I'd love it if there was a forum dedicated to this avenue.

Again, if this sort of thing is addressed somewhere on the website, please let me know. But if not..... well..... what do you think?

Thanks,



j.
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Not many secrets to share! The mics many of those people used cost more than your whole setup probably ($4-12k). The preamps now fetch $1-2k a channel. WIDE analog tape! Consoles with wide open sounds. Mixed to WIDE analog tape again. Mastered for vinyl.

How can you compete with that at home? :)
 
Ford Van said:
Not many secrets to share! The mics many of those people used cost more than your whole setup probably ($4-12k). The preamps now fetch $1-2k a channel. WIDE analog tape! Consoles with wide open sounds. Mixed to WIDE analog tape again. Mastered for vinyl.

How can you compete with that at home? :)
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For the last decade, all my stuff has been done on wide track tape and mixed to tape (I'm a 3M guy). Wide track machines are cheap now, though tape isn't. That's fine, but the sonics of tracking on my DAW aren't that different. The big sonic piece on vocals and most everything else is using the Studio Traps so the sound at the mike is good, along with using either an accurate omni mike or a figure-8 to get the direct sound and the diffuse early reflections. Makes it easy... all that's left is that trivial part about what to sing and then singing it right! ;)

Cheers,

Otto
 
ofajen said:
For the last decade, all my stuff has been done on wide track tape and mixed to tape (I'm a 3M guy). Wide track machines are cheap now, though tape isn't. That's fine, but the sonics of tracking on my DAW aren't that different. The big sonic piece on vocals and most everything else is using the Studio Traps so the sound at the mike is good, along with using either an accurate omni mike or a figure-8 to get the direct sound and the diffuse early reflections. Makes it easy... all that's left is that trivial part about what to sing and then singing it right! ;)

Cheers,

Otto
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Sorry man, but there is just a sound to 2" tape that you cannot get in digital!
 
Ford Van said:
Sorry man, but there is just a sound to 2" tape that you cannot get in digital!
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No argument. My smaller format machines (1" and 1/2") had/have wider tracks, better tape to head contact and sound better than 2" 24-track machines. Don't even need NR. I still port over from the 4-track to the DAW when I want some tracking done on tape. My point was that that is a less critical sonic detail than getting the sound right at the mike. What happens before you get to line level is more critical to the sonics, in my experience.

Cheers,

Otto
 
ofajen said:
My point was that that is a less critical sonic detail than getting the sound right at the mike.
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Yep. To jive with what both of you guys said, despite the fun little stories you hear like John Lennon singing lying on his back or Tom Waits singing through a megaphone, great vocals are almost always gotten by sticking a quality vocalist in a quality room in front of a quality mic and short signal chain. Put a pop filter up and you're good to go.

There's not often a whole lot left. Yeah there's good old plate chambers for reverb, Motown compression, some overused effects like AM-radio-sound bandpassing, things like that. But get past those half-dozen or so standbys and there's not a whole lot left to talk about.

Watch just about any video of FamousArtistX recording their vocals, and you'll see then standing in a quality-teated sound room front of a pop filter, in front of an expensive Neumann or AT. That's the secret formula. ;)

G.
 
Ford Van said:
Not as much as the mic itself.
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I'm a guitar player so my brain wants to relate the mic/preamp relationship to the guitar/amp relationship. For myself and the way I play, if I had to pick, I would take a kickass amp over a kickass guitar any day of the week. I think I'd rate in the neighborhood of something like amp = 75% and guitar = 25%. I know it's kind of silly to look at things that way but I have played crappy guitars thru good amps and the majority of the magic was there. On the other hand, a good guitar thru a mediocre amp is just mediocre no matter how good the guitar.

With microphones, I have used a few that sound pretty damn fine thru mediocre preamps. I haven't had the chance to use any of the big$ preamps so I don't know what I might think of a mediocre mic thru a great preamp. I've seen guys mention that a sm57 absolutely rocks thru a nice preamp. My experience so far with sm57's has left we wanting something.

In your experience, is the difference between an ok mic and a kickass mic as big of a deal as the the difference in a mediocre amp and a kickass amp?
 
TravisinFlorida said:
In your experience, is the difference between an ok mic and a kickass mic as big of a deal as the the difference in a mediocre amp and a kickass amp?
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Yes!

While a good preamp is still desirable, I will take rocking mic's into middle of the road preamps over middle of the road mic's into killer preamps any day of the week!
 
Ford Van said:
Yes!

While a good preamp is still desirable, I will take rocking mic's into middle of the road preamps over middle of the road mic's into killer preamps any day of the week!
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That's good to know. Now I don't feel like I'm missing out on so much. :D Thanks man.
 
Ford Van said:
Yes!

While a good preamp is still desirable, I will take rocking mic's into middle of the road preamps over middle of the road mic's into killer preamps any day of the week!
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I totally agree. Some years ago, I used to track to my 3Ms using only the preamps on my old Mackie 1604. Never had any complaints, as long as I had good sounds reaching the right mike for the job. I would crank the recorder gain up and use a reference level down around -6 dBu, to make sure the unbalanced preamp outs weren't pushed too hard, so I got best sound I could out of the Mackie.

Now I have groovy things like the GR preamp, the MixPre and the old Altec tube preamps, which are all great tools. But the difference in the preamp alone isn't that much compared to the mike and to the sound going into it.

If I had to choose, I'd keep the Studio Traps and the mikes and lose the expensive preamps and not lose any sleep. The only nuisance would be losing the portability of the MixPre, but that's a different question.

Cheers,

Otto
 
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