For those w/out a control room.

J

JesusFreak

New member
How do you do your recording. What I mean is, if someone is playing guitar....it's probably hard to impossible to hear them thru the near fields while they are playing so to check how it sounds, do you: (a) have them play a little and then play it back to make sure that it sounds right, (b)monitor thru headphones, (c)just don't care as you will be able to make it sound good during mixdown.

I'm just curious because I pretty much have my studio built but havent' built the control room yet because the money tree died and blew over so I don't have the extra few hundred it would cost to build one. So I will be recording in the same room I am playing in and from the looks of it, it seems there are others that do the same thing, so any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and God Bless!
 
I prefer to record GTR through my pod pro. I also have done things like record a few seconds, and then play it back. Thats what I have to do for drums. I built a vocal booth thats pretty sound proof, so I stick amps in there some times.
 
I have a Vocal Booth and the rest of my studio is one room, open concept....

I usually put the amp in the vocal booth, and the guitar player sits out in the room with me...

Works great..

Joe
 
There are a lot of pros who record without control rooms too. I was at the 2002 TapeOp conference and there were a number of the panelists who really preferred to work without one. Their opinion was that a control room can really destroy the vibe of a session in that in order to listen to a take, the musicians have to put down their instruments and walk into the control room. Also, its nice to be able to communicate with people without a talkback mic. If you have just one main room for tracking and mixing, all they have to do is take off their headphones. They were asked the same question you posed and they always hit record and then play back to check things out. I think this is probably a better method anyhow because most control rooms I've been in aren't completely isolated and you almost always hear bleed from the live instrument (especially drums) along with the sound through the nearfields. So, to compensate you end up monitoring at extremely loud levels while you are getting sounds which is bad all around. Headphones can help get the initial mic positions, but you'll have the same problem I just mentioned and you'll never get to hear exactly whats going to tape unless you record it and play it back.

I've been thinking about studio design and such lately since I will possibly be buying a house and actually doing some construction for a home studio in the near future. I think what I will do is just build one great sounding multi-purpose room and a couple iso booths for guitar amps and such. That way, the only thing you really have to worry about for the problem you describe is the drums, which would be recorded in the main room. I think the one room approach is a much better use of limited space since a larger room with the appropriate dimensions will always sound better than a small room for both tracking and mixing. It will probably require some innovation for some flexible room treatments (ie maybe moveable baffles or hinged reflective/absorbtive panels). Also, if you are often playing on your recordings, a control room would be more trouble than its worth.

This would probably be a good topic for the studio building forum.
 
yeah, I jus tdo the hadphoe thing. Check it out on the monitors, then throw on the headphones. I don't even have enough room for drums.
 
You guys bring up some great points and ideas for me....I think you all are right about building a very small iso booth to put the amps in and record like that.

Just a curiosity question now....what is the reason for a vocal booth?? Is it to make it as dead as possible so that you can add other things to it later or what?? I'm just curious because I've never really heard the real reason for one.

Thanks to you all for taking the time to respond to my thread. I really do appreciate it.

God Bless!
 
Oh Yeah...I forgot, just a follow up question....have any of you ever used an amp box (at least I think that is what it's called). Just a box that has insulation in it and is just big enough to fit the amp in...then a hole in the side of it to run the mic cable thru.

I seen some information on them that they are good to help cut down the sound level when sound absortion is important. But I would also think that it would kill the sound of the amp. I'm probably wrong so if anyone can set me straight on these..I'd appreciate it....

Thanks again and God Bless!
 
ebeam said:


I've been thinking about studio design and such lately since I will possibly be buying a house and actually doing some construction for a home studio in the near future. I think what I will do is just build one great sounding multi-purpose room and a couple iso booths for guitar amps and such. That way, the only thing you really have to worry about for the problem you describe is the drums, which would be recorded in the main room.
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I'm in the same boat. I just moved into a new house and I have a full unfinished basement to do whatever I want with. I have two rooms, one quite a bit larger than the other that will make a good live room. The other room would be a control room but is larger than I would like and I really can't move it because there are already house supporting beams in place. Having used headphones over at my singers pad I've gotten used to them, though I don't really like them. So this thread has got me thinking.....Maybe I'll finish off my other room in my basement that I have been intending to use as a workout room, it's good size. Big enough for drums, a vocal booth and all the other gear. Then I could use what was going to be my control room for my gym. Hmmm, only problem is my room that was to originally be my live room is separated to the room I'm thinking about using now by a roughed in bathroom! This is a good thread! I've got some planning to do!
 
I watch the little lights. I mean after I get the software levels set by recording and playing back, I can pretty well get an honest sound out of my guitar just by watching the levels boarder on clipping.
I guess thats more of a comfort though considering I play and record alone, and I use all the same gear (guitars, pres and so on). I am sure my method would suck with adding other dudes and their gear.
 
I'm facing the same dilemna right now. I have a great 17'x31' living room and the only really convenient control room is a tiny 9'10"x11'8".

I think I'm going to use the big room for the control room and just put drums and amps in different rooms of the house depending on the sound I need.

It seems like 80% of the time is spent in the control room anyway so you might as well be comfortable. I also hate having all the gear pushed up against a wall. It's a real pain when it comes to rewiring or adding gear.

I don't quite understand the point of the amp iso box unless you have to be quiet for the sake of roommates. You can always stick it in a closet or bathroom to seperate it from your monitoring environment.
 
TexRoadkill said:
You can always stick it in a closet or bathroom to seperate it from your monitoring environment.
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Ah yes!

That's what I can use my basement bathroom for! Great idea..And my bathroom is centrally located in my basement.
 
JesusFreak said:
You guys bring up some great points and ideas for me....I think you all are right about building a very small iso booth to put the amps in and record like that.

Just a curiosity question now....what is the reason for a vocal booth?? Is it to make it as dead as possible so that you can add other things to it later or what?? I'm just curious because I've never really heard the real reason for one.

Thanks to you all for taking the time to respond to my thread. I really do appreciate it.

God Bless!
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Well, I can tell you why I built mine.

First of all, Vocal mikes tend to pick up everything. First time I fired up my V67 I got the sounds of my chair creaking when I shitfed my weight. My vocal booth, while not completely sound proof, eleminates a lot of that.

Second of all, youre right about making it dead, at least for me. I made mine as dead as possible, and I had reverb ect afterwards. If I had my way, my whole studio would be completely dead. That way, all I have on the recording is the actual sound of the instrument. I can add the other stuff in later, and experiment whith it until I get the sound I want. Not everybod likes doing it this way, but I do.
 
"why do i need a vocal booth?"

Many times you record basic tracks on a song with a scratch vocal. Scratch vocals are very important, because musicians play differently with a real reference vocal than if they have to imagine the vocal while they are playing.

If you don't isolate the vocalist from acoustic instruments like drums or pianos the reference vocal will bleed into those tracks, and then you don't have the option of replacing it later. This will often result in a very pissed-off vocalist, especially if they had blocked sinuses the day you were doing basics. Isolation also makes it possible for the vocalist to give oral cues like, "ok, bridge coming up! don't screw it up now!" and other useful spoken information.

So that is why you need a vocal isolation booth. My "booth" is a third floor loft (rest of studio is on first floor). There are couches, antique furniture, carpets, skylights, exercise machines, a library, etc. up there, so in this case it could hardly be described as a "booth". But it serves the same purpose. The other musicians get quite jealous.

My "booth" is anything but dead. As a matter of fact, it sounds great. Many times the "scratch" vocals end up being keepers.

When it comes time to do final vocals, the vocalist is welcome to use the main room. It may not have antique furniture, but it saves them running up and down two flights of stairs. Nothing worse than an out of breath vocalist.
 
littledog, bdgr and all,

Thanks for going over what a vocal booth would do for me..I really do appreciate it...now it just comes down to making a decision of actually building one, or going to another room to do vocals like you suggested....

Once again, I really do appreciate you guys taking the time to help me and make suggestions...anything else you can think of that you may think could help, please dont hesitate to let me know...

Thanks and God Bless!
 
Re: "why do i need a vocal booth?"

littledog said:
My "booth" is a third floor loft (rest of studio is on first floor). There are couches, antique furniture, carpets, skylights, exercise machines, a library, etc. up there, so in this case it could hardly be described as a "booth". But it serves the same purpose. The other musicians get quite jealous.
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So how long are your mic cables? Did you drill holes in any floors/ceilings?

This leads me to another question.....How long can mic cables be before you suffer from any kind of sound degradation?
 
Actually, I'm using an 8x4 100' stage snake running down two flights of stairs. (Hey, I never said my place was going to make the cover of MIX!)

While most engineers would be horrified at using that much mic cable, my poor ears can't pick up a whole lot of difference between tracks recorded on the third floor and those recorded on the first (except that the upstairs room has some nicer early reflections).

Last weekend I had a Colombian singer in the loft. When she heard her rough vocals played back, she swore she would never again record anywhere else. Would they have been even better through less cable? Maybe. For me, all that matters is she loved the sound and can't wait to come back and do more...
 
I use isolation cabnets for recording guitar amps. Cheaper than building a whole room. With the bass going strait in to the Pre amp. drums set up in the Isolation booth, and the vocalist doing a scratch vocal in the same room as the guitars.

This way I have like no bleed and a total live vibe going, and the vocalist can come back alone and do thier thing.
 
i do everything in 1 room becuase i don't have a choice.

interesting theory about not using a control room...i'd like to have the option of course.

but anyways, i just record and playback to make sure the sound is good.

kind of an intimate way to engineer i guess.
 
I recorded my album in one room for the lot and just did sample recordings and listened back then adjusted what was needed.This gave me and the other guys a chance to experiment and see where the sound was going and what we wanted as far sound for song went,without all that annoying back and forth to the control room,oh and the beer fridge was there as well:)
 
I know that having a control room would probably be good for monitoring better and things like that, but to be honest, after listening to everyone and these other suggestions, it almost sounds like it will be easier to record w/out a control room.

The way that I did my wiring, I can always add one later, but I'm not so sure that I'm going to want to after this discussion. I know there is good things about a control room, so I guess it's just a matter of weighing the differences and go with what is better.

Thanks again guys for all your thoughts...this has been a great thread for me...it's really got me thinking about some stuff...God Bless!
 
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