Flattest studio monitor for mixing and mastering

[rodal]

Hello everyone.....Just one more thing to consider: Almost the 90 % of the music around the world it´s listened in a pair of earbuds.... It´s a subject to be considered if you pretend to sell your music.....I have the Yamaha HS80s and think they are really great for my purposes.
Cheers.......
Rodal

 

[Steenamaroo]

Hello everyone.....Just one more thing to consider: Almost the 90 % of the music around the world it´s listened in a pair of earbuds.... It´s a subject to be considered if you pretend to sell your music.....I have the Yamaha HS80s and think they are really great for my purposes.
Cheers.......
Rodal

That's irrelevant, but thanks for your insight.

Almost 90% of people around the world don't have perfect vision, but painters don't compromise.
In my opinion, people who hold views like yours are gradually but successfully raping what was once music.

I think the loudness war is showing us that enough consumers do care enough about the quality of the final product to make hi-q mixes and masters worthwhile.

 

[grimtraveller]

Almost the 90 % of the music around the world it´s listened in a pair of earbuds.... It´s a subject to be considered if you pretend to sell your music.....

Firstly, how do you or anyone else on this planet know what 90% of the world do or how much music is listened to on earbuds ?
Secondly, even supposing that that were true {and it will, unless you're God~in which case I don't think you'd be logging into HR.com !~never be known if it is } how many of that 90% are listening in the calm relaxed atmosphere of home or the car/vehicle or the hospital bed ? Earbuds, for the most part, are for listening on the move.........
In my job I constantly run into people arriving for work in lifts with their MP3 players and sometimes I ask them whether they prefer loudspeakers or earbuds. In 4 years, only one person has said they prefer buds.
Now, this may or may not demonstrate anything, but in reality, any mix will translate to earbuds because that is what earbuds, like headphones, do. They aren't and never were designed as an end or sound medium in themselves, but rather, to carry directly to your ears what is already there in the playing machine. So if you were to "mix for earbuds", you'd actually be narrowing your focus, whereas by mixing for the actual format {that is, mono, stereo or 5.1, rather than the speaker, which, essentially buds are} you cater for everyone and every single combination of listening in one fell swoop.

 

[TChant]

Custom build

If you are willing to go passive and build your own you can end up with an accurate set of speakers for relatively cheap.

At a certain parts express there is a forum that has a bunch of free designs along with the parts lists needed for the build. The one I went with was about as ruler flat as I have seen and when they were finished being built one of my speaker designer buddies listened to them and was very impressed with all that he heard, he sends me mixes quite often now to reference on my speakers.

Here is a pic of one of them:

 

[jaynm26]

Hello everyone.....Just one more thing to consider: Almost the 90 % of the music around the world it´s listened in a pair of earbuds.... It´s a subject to be considered if you pretend to sell your music.....I have the Yamaha HS80s and think they are really great for my purposes.
Cheers.......
Rodal

I mean I use a Windows PC Logitech Mic, from Jimmy's House to record my vocals and not the $15 one I use the $20 Logitech Mic with a mute button to cut out the background noise. I mean I know its not a U47 but most music is played on earbuds anyway so I dont see the what all the fuss is about...hi end, ha! hi end my ass I got p-o-r-n subscriptions to pay for. Plus no one buying rap music that much any more anyway so...

 

[jaynm26]

Firstly, how do you or anyone else on this planet know what 90% of the world do or how much music is listened to on earbuds ?
Secondly, even supposing that that were true {and it will, unless you're God~in which case I don't think you'd be logging into HR.com !~never be known if it is } how many of that 90% are listening in the calm relaxed atmosphere of home or the car/vehicle or the hospital bed ? Earbuds, for the most part, are for listening on the move.........
In my job I constantly run into people arriving for work in lifts with their MP3 players and sometimes I ask them whether they prefer loudspeakers or earbuds. In 4 years, only one person has said they prefer buds.
Now, this may or may not demonstrate anything, but in reality, any mix will translate to earbuds because that is what earbuds, like headphones, do. They aren't and never were designed as an end or sound medium in themselves, but rather, to carry directly to your ears what is already there in the playing machine. So if you were to "mix for earbuds", you'd actually be narrowing your focus, whereas by mixing for the actual format {that is, mono, stereo or 5.1, rather than the speaker, which, essentially buds are} you cater for everyone and every single combination of listening in one fell swoop.

(holds grim back) Whooa, whooaa, just a newb, grim just a newb...I mean some people may mix on earbuds just sayin...Uggh Radal might want to re think that statement my friend lol. Got the Pro's here off lease lol. Grim is right tho

I mean I send my music to a tape deck on a heater for warmth...No, no, not no Studer or Aphex I use a sony walkman tape player and not just any walkman the Sony WM-EX85, held above a coil electric heater just when it starts to catch fire I know its clipping then I take my walkman and pipe it into my interface. Best warm full sound you ever heard from a tape deck ha! beat that Studer! lol

(I mean 90% of music is played on earbuds anyway so why all the cool equipment its 2013, not the 1960's)

 

[jimmys69]

I mean I use a Windows PC Logitech Mic, from Jimmy's House to record my vocals and not the $15 one I use the $20 Logitech Mic with a mute button to cut out the background noise. I mean I know its not a U47 but most music is played on earbuds anyway so I dont see the what all the fuss is about...hi end, ha! hi end my ass I got p-o-r-n subscriptions to pay for. Plus no one buying rap music that much any more anyway so...

Now lets not go overboard and confuse people here Jay. I use a $30 USB mic to record vocals. lol

 

[Rod Norman]

All "studio monitors" are flat. On the bench, some might be flatter than others but your ears won't notice the difference unless you're an experienced mastering engineer. That being said, the real issue is the room. The sound from any monitors will be colored by the room, so if your room is not flat, the speakers will not be flat. Go with the yamahas and make sure your control room area is well structured so you don't get colors in your sound. I still use the Auratones for close reference speakers and punch in the big JBL's for the final listen. Good Luck,
Rod norman

I had just been to the local music store today as I had made my mind up on buying a pair of Yamaha HS80m's after doing some research online. Mostly people say they are the flattest sounding monitor speakers you can get out there. To me a good pair of monitor speakers are the ones which'll give you the flattest response without coloring the frequencies at all (whether highs, lows or mids). This fits to the phrase "What you hear is what you get." And this in turn means that the mixe's translation will be at-least 95% perfect if not a 100%. What I mean is the final track out will sound exactly the same on at-least 95 systems out of 100 if not on all the 100 systems. Now I have 3 contenders : Yamaha HS80m's, KRK VXT8's, the Mackie HR824mk2's and the Adam AX8's. From the online research I did for almost a month I came to the conclusion that the HS80m's were the flattest of these. But when I went down to the music store today the guy there told me to wait for another week as they didn't have the HS80m's in stock (now this is a sign it sells out really fast) and then he went on to advice me about my purchase. He said that Mackies were the best and the flattest and would give me translations better than the HS80m's or KRK's. He also recommended the brands like Adam's and Genelec. Now money is not really the issue here. The issue is I don't want to purchase something and then sit and cry about it later. Frankly speaking I'm no expert at this. I know there's allot of people on this forum who own studios locally and overseas, who are mastering engineers, professional beat producers and many more talented and experienced folk. So its obvious ya'll have oceans and oceans of audio knowledge and I'd be thankful if you share it with me so I can at-least get an idea if I'm doing the right thing. Do the Yahamas really translate that well? In a battle between Yamaha HS80m's, KRK VXT8's, Adam AX8's and Mackie HR824mk2's who'd win? And why? Also if ya'll know any monitors which are better then please mention the brand name and the model. I usually do rap and hip hop music and also R&B. I do country music sometimes but that's rare. The genre shouldn't matter because whatever I do on it should translate well on other systems. Any suggestions? All help will be appreciated.

Regards,
Clyde Yung D'souza.

 

[Ainaudio]

No one monitor is flat, not even talking about room affects, maybe Meyersound monitors are the flatest.
But using ConEq system ( Real Sound Lab ) on any quality (check distortion and polar pattern only) monitors you will get totally flat result, especially for near field monitors.
This system is true working and far better as any competitor (far better as human hearing too).
Mid and far field monitors are respective more affected from room acoustic what is separate question/problem.
P.S.
ConEq uses different principle of measuring technology (ACOUSTIC POWER Frequency Response), little bit hard to understand first time even for many pro users, but look for result !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjrfJk1svE8&feature=player_embedded

 

[jaynm26]

Now lets not go overboard and confuse people here Jay. I use a $30 USB mic to record vocals. lol

Dang it jimmy! So you when you sold me the $20 jack input MIC and you upgraded to the $30 USB MIC!!!!! Thats just selfish your trying to keep all the good sound for your self. I need to up grade ASAP to a $31 USB 3.0, MIC then.

Wait, wait, what am I talking bout jimmy I have a MAC! all I have to do is go to my settings and go to audio and select input mic. (You know MAC's comes with a built in MIC) and so what if the quality isn't that good...I mean 90% of people listen to music on earbuds any way, so........

 

[grimtraveller]

All "studio monitors" are flat.

I'd like you to debate with Lt Bob on this because his view is the complete opposite. I understand paradoxes but this ain't one ~ you can't both be right.

(holds grim back) Whooa, whooaa, just a newb, grim just a newb...I mean some people may mix on earbuds just sayin...

My point wasn't to do with mixing on earbuds and nor was Rodal's. Rodal strongly implied that there's no point in mixing to optimum for good general translation because most people that listen to music do so on relatively shitty implements.
I was questioning the logic {and factual evidence that leads to the conclusion} behind that point of view.

If you are willing to go passive and build your own you can end up with an accurate set of speakers for relatively cheap.

Part of me wants to say "get real !"
while another part of me wants to applaud you for such an audacious and self sufficient suggestion.
I'm torn between the light and dark........

 

[jimmys69]

Dang it jimmy! So you when you sold me the $20 jack input MIC and you upgraded to the $30 USB MIC!!!!! Thats just selfish your trying to keep all the good sound for your self. I need to up grade ASAP to a $31 USB 3.0, MIC then.

Wait, wait, what am I talking bout jimmy I have a MAC! all I have to do is go to my settings and go to audio and select input mic. (You know MAC's comes with a built in MIC) and so what if the quality isn't that good...I mean 90% of people listen to music on earbuds any way, so........

Really, that just makes me sad....

 

[jaynm26]

My point wasn't to do with mixing on earbuds and nor was Rodal's.

No I was poking fun at his earbud statement.

 

[John Willett]

All "studio monitors" are flat. On the bench, some might be flatter than others but your ears won't notice the difference unless you're an experienced mastering engineer.

This is pretty wrong really. The better studio monitors try to be flat, but even the best are not perfect.

Yes - your ears will clearly hear the difference - even my wife can clearly hear the difference, and this is between two monitors in the £2-3,000 a pair bracket.

That being said, the real issue is the room.

Agreed - the room does play a big part and getting the room acoustics right is important.

No one monitor is flat, not even talking about room affects.....

Yes, this is more like it.

Monitor specs will show you many of the characteristics.

Loudspeakers do all tend to go omni-directional at low frequencies with the sole exception of the ME-Geithain "K" series monitors that are designed to have a cardioid response in the bass so that low frequencies are not thrown back to the rear wall to reflect and muddy the sound.

 

[abc1mce2]

In my unprofessional opinion and from what I've seen in various studios your best option is probably to buy 2 sets of monitors and a good pair of headphones. Myself I have the Mackie HR824 mkI, Yamaha NS-10M with a Halfer P3000 amp and the AKG K702 headphones. Along with the your monitors and headphones you'll need a good monitoring system for playback and good convertors. Aside from that and the treatment (or lack of treatment) of your room, you'll need to learn the strength and weaknesses of your monitors and room. Everyone on this post is talking about flat and no one has mentioned that you still need to learn your monitors and the way your mix will translate from your listen environment to the real world.

Being a semi-pro (that's what I call myself) I was struggling with my mixes for awhile. Granted my Digi002 wasn't the best convertor and my Presonus Central Station was a fairly good monitoring system, I struggled with my mixes time and time again. I was hearing one thing, but in the car it didn't always sound like I wanted it to sound. When I changed over to the Aurora 16 convertors, Dangerous 2Bus for summing and the Dangerous D-Box for monitoring, everything came into focus for me. Leaving analog summing out of the picture, the monitoring and convertors changed how my sonic picture was being presented to me and I know for a fact my monitoring system was the difference.

I really enjoy my Mackies and the Yahamas, but I use them to complement eachother so I do alot of a/b'ing between them til I can get the mix to sound good in both sets of monitors and my headphones. This is a method I've seen done in numberous tutorials and the 3 pro studios I've visited and this way I can overcome the weakness of the Mackies with my Yahamas (the very high end and mids on the NS-10M is just better for mixing to me). The AKG K702 don't have the big bass as some of the other headphones I read about, but the sound stage is WIDE and BIG and they sound really good (Google the 5 best headphones between $350 - $500).

Just as you, I mix rap, dance and r&b music and the low end on the Mackies is helpful, but you can be fooled. The sub region between 40 to 55hz can be a little tricky at times so you'll need to try cutting in that region on sub freqs to make sure your bass isn't too boomy (of course as always it depends on the source material). I still go listen in the car from time to time cause I like feeling that bass rumble while sitting in the drivers seat and just to cross reference my mixes (which are much better now) in the real world and some pro's still do it themselves. I personally believe having 2 sets of complementary monitors and a good pair of headphones is the way to go, but if you don't learn your monitors and your room, it doesn't matter what you buy your mixes will still suffer (I have been down that road myself).

 

[Steenamaroo]

Everyone on this post is talking about flat and no one has mentioned that you still need to learn your monitors and the way your mix will translate from your listen environment to the real world.

Setting them up well in your room will make a world of difference to any monitor you choose....

....I do feel that knowing your speakers (monitors) can go a hell of a long way.
Make sure you spend time listening to familiar commercial mixes on your monitors, no matter what ones you buy.

A few others did too.