First Vocal Recording Mic Selection

M

markcoburn

New member
I've enjoyed reading this forum. This is my first post.

7 Years ago I decided to get a paying job instead of pursuing the passion of music recording and production. I figured that I would eventually start building a personal studio and fulfill my desire as a hobby.

At this time I lead a small praise and worship group. We practice at my house in the garage. I have 4 Audix OM2s and a Roland VM3100 that I am learning to record to PC Hard Drive with.

I'd like to get a Vocal recording mic that will complement my voice. I'm not very talented. I've always considered myself a baritone but that might be more of a limited range issue. I can't sing as low as a bass or as high as a tenor. As a result, my low notes are thin and the high ones are sung through gritted teeth and a few tears. (Probably not just mine)

To the point: I figure that if I can start recording my voice and learn how to make recordings with limited talent, I would eventually be able to start inviting gifted friends over for some fun recording sessions.

I'm not sure where to start for a mic. I read a lot of the posts here and the Studio Project stuff sounds really exciting. Also I like that Alan Hyatt personally posts and responds to emails; even if he is understandably biased.

I have a short clip of me singing in the garage with an AT3035. It’s nothing to brag about. Again, my talent is thin and I’ve only used this mic a couple of times and it’s the only L/D condenser mic I’ve ever used. It's done in a 3-car garage with tall cealings and nothing soft in sight. Also, I did it on my own so I’m sure that I made a lot of technical mistakes like gain and mic placement. I did use a bit of compression but otherwise it's dry. I even used the board’s pre.

Don't know if anyone will be interested or if it would help, but I could email an MP3 of this clip to whoever might care or feel that they have experience matching voices to mics. Maybe this is an ineffective exercise. All I’m really looking for is a starting point. A direction, then I can demo and know what to listen for.

P.S. The clip is from a worship song, so if that offends you, you won’t want to hear it.

Sorry that this ended up so long...
 
mark, IMHO e-mailing a vocal sample doesn't help in selecting a microphone.
There are too many variables. A better way is to just get a microphone from a
dealer who has a return policy so you can try it at home.
The Studio Projects line, however, sound excellent for most voices so that's
a good place to start.

You're probably too hard on yourself as to how you sound as a singer.
A fine book/exercise CD for improving your singing is "Set Your Voice Free",
by Roger Love. It will help with range extension too BTW.
As a lyric baritone, it took me several years to be comfortable sustaining
notes well in the second tenor range, and passably in the high bass range.

Chris

P.S. Welcome to the forums!
 
Thanks Chris,

I expected that it wouldn't be that easy. Otherwise I'd see clips flying all over this forum.

The thing that I'm running into is that I'm not sure what I should be expecting/listening for. I read in these forums of people giving accurate descriptions of their voices and what they need out of a mic. I'm not sure what I need. Sometimes my voice is nasally, sometimes boomy, sometimes thin. Depends. I know that voice training would help, but I'm at the mic buying stage now and not as interested yet in voice lessons.

Also, I don't know where I am going to find a place that will let me demo mics. I got the AT3035 from Guitar C. I got nervous when I read here that they don't honor the return policy on mics. I ran straight there and asked them to reconsider because I did not know at the time of purchase. They said they would take it back. I'm returning it today.

I don't think that I can buy a recording mic if I can't demo it at home for a couple weeks with my gear in my [room]. Even though I'm only buying a $200-$400 mic, I'd still like it to be an investment that I'm using years later and I want to be sure about my decision.

I live in the Portland, OR area. If anyone knows where I can demo mics around here, please share.

Thanks again,
 
You seem like a pretty realistic guy, so I'm going to be really blunt with you on this. Please excuse me if I come across the wrong way, as I am only trying to help out:

But if your aim is to get a mic that sounds good with your voice, and you admittedly don't sing very well, then I'm afraid it will be very difficult to tell a good mic from a bad one. A poor, untrained voice just sounds plain bad on pretty much everything. :)

And if your goal is to use one on others besides yourself, then you won't know untill you try it on those people. It's a lot like chicks and their shoes. You gotta' have a pair that matches each outfit. And what looks good on one chick might look horrible on another one, or might not even fit her feet at all.

A good idea is to have a couple of very different sounding mics on hand. Perhaps a darker sounding one like the Oktava condensers, coupled with a brighter one like a Rode NT2. One of them should have a bass rolloff option as well, in case you get a singer who likes to swallow the mic or one that has an overly-boomy voice.

Eventually, you'll want a Large-diphragm dynamic and a ribbon, as well. Then when gear lust ultimately sinks it's hooks in to you, you'll be naked, without food . . . your blood will be bone-dry of any semblance of plasma that has since been donated for an extra $15. . .

But you'll have a great mic locker!
 
Mark,

There is a lot of wisdom in chessrock's advice but it may be too much too soon. It's like telling a 6 year old there's no Santa Claus - I mean wait until they turn 8 or 9. :)

A microphone won't make anyone sound better. The whole idea of a mic is to capture what's out there as realistically as possible. A mic pre amp, OTOH, can change the quality of the recorded track somewhat. Still, it won't make a weak singer sound like a pro. Sorry.

OK, I need to be helpful. A lot of online music stores like Musician's Friend (www.musiciansfriend.com) have a 30-day money back guarantee which is what you're looking for. You may not get the best price all the time but you won't have to worry about not being able to return it. I don't think they carry the C1 but there are others that you can try on your voice. Some vox mics worth your time and in your budget: AKG C3000B, Rode NT1000, Shure KSM27. Remember that condenser mics need phantom power and your mic preamp will also greatly affect the sound of the recording.

Good luck and have fun!
 
chessparov said:
A fine book/exercise CD for improving your singing is "Set Your Voice Free",
by Roger Love. It will help with range extension too BTW.
Click to expand...

I can heartily second that, c'parov. Man, wondered how I could recommend that book without sounding like a shill (or, a "plant" -- as chessrock might prefer :))

O.P., try out the book. It's like $15, and it comes with that CD with vocal training exercises on it. It eliminates that middle-area-guesswork in your voice (from low to high) -- you know the part -- where your voice wants to break into falsetto? :) Anyone else use this book? Nah... it's a secret weapon :cool:


Chad
 
Mark, IMHO you should have kept the AT3035. I was at the GC in Beaverton just after Christmas and ended up showing one of the GC sales guys the right way to A/B/C three mics on their Mackie 32x8 board into a pair of HR824's. The three mics the customer was interested in were the AT3035, Shure KSM-32, and the Rode NT2.

After I got the salesman to turn the logo side around on the Shure so it would stop feeding back, took out all EQ on all three channels, and trimmed all three for equal SPL so we were actually comparing mics and not settings, the AT3035 kicked the others' butt. Not just my opinion, but agreed by 7-8 people in the room at the time. This was just a live vocal test with two different guys singing into the mics, so it's not like this was done in an anechoic chamber or anything, but still the 3035 sounded the most natural. This is not surprising considering the specs - I plan to get two of these before Audio Technica does the same stupid thing they did by dis-continuing the AT-4033.

If you get a neutral sounding mic, you will be able to hear what you REALLY sound like singing. This is always scary, it STILL scares me and I've been singing (mostly backups) for 20+ years. The first time I tried recording myself, I waited til the family was gone shopping and then IMMEDIATELY erased the tape. (I have perfect pitch, so un-trained vocal chords didn't go very well with trained ears) Now, I don't care for the timbre of my voice and want more range (gonna check out that book/CD) but I'm NEVER off pitch as long as I can hear myself. (Stage bands get kinda loud)

Nobody (well, maybe 2 or 3 people) sounds good with absolutely no processing, unless you're really into that "unvarnished truth" junk - My advice - get the book, get the 3035 (It'll work well on lots of other stuff besides vocals) and sing/record a LOT... Steve

Oh, and ask OTHERS whether your recordings "sound like you" - no one ever thinks their voice really sounds like it does, the bone-induction in your head changes everything, not to mention hearing the sound waves AFTER they bounce back to your ears...
 
Chad, I'm pleased to see that book has helped you too.

chessrock made an excellent point about having a "smorgabord" of
microphones. The Studio Projects line seems to work well for most
singers. In addition to a LD condensor like that, you could get a
classic large diaphram dynamic like a Sennheiser 421 (or 421MKII).
They run about $200 in excellent condition on e-bay.
The cool thing about 421's is that you can use them also for up to a
vocal trio. The new 421 MKII's are brighter sounding than the old ones,
not better or worse IMHO, just different. Extremely versatile microphone.

What kind of mic pre are you using?
That has an impact on your sound too.

Chris
 
All,

This is awesome! I'm quite thankful for all the responses. Let me reply to each...

Chris: I appreciate your candor. Makes good sense. So, would a Baritone want a dark mic or a bright one? My voice is more of the projecting type so I noticed that I liked the pad because it kept me from clipping the input stage of my Blue Tube.

I am totally the gear lust type. Always have been and I think that it's the gear that excites me more than the art.


Riffing: Thanks for looking out for the new guy. I appreciate your going easy on the new guy.

C1 has jus gotten so much attention that I want to hear what it's all about. Of the ones you mentioned (AKG C3000B, Rode NT1000, Shure KSM27) How are they in comparison to the AT3035? Are they good for a baritone that sings loud to get the high stuff?


Chad: Ya, I am going to check into that book for sure. Thanks.


Knightfly: I might have ended up with the AT3035 in the end, but when I heard that GC didn't do the typical return thing on mics, I knew that I wouldn't be able to go through the proper process with them. I didn't actually get it back yet. I do hate to go back to trying to record with the OM2s after having it. It's just that now that I started seeing all the talk about a few mics in the same price range that some people seem to think are must have mics and virtually nothing about the AT3035, I'm starting to think that I need to hear those other ones before I can settle with this one.

I think that your comments about being scared when you hear the naked truth played back apply to me. I've been in singing groups since I was a kid and I sometimes get out-of-the-blue complements from people around me at church. I lead a praise team and no one laughs at me. I've always wished I had more talent but at the same time been thankful for what I do have. Now that I’m trying to record, just hearing my voice isolated really shows all the little defects. I think that I expected studio performing to be easier because you can set up every thing to your favor and be in a perfect environment with mics that don’t have to deal with live situations.

Thanks for the part about few people sounding good unprocessed. I was secretly hoping that was true. I still want to take this AT back because I don't like the idea of being stuck with it. I want the opportunity to record with a few and keep the one that I like the best. Then I can tell myself and others why I use that one and how I decided.

Chris (Chessparov): I could totally just buy and buy equipment until I had it all. I feel sorry for that girl who has agreed to marry me this December.

What makes the SP work well with most singers? Owners have been making comments like those mics raise the quality of their recordings into another class, an elite one.

If you can use the 421's on a trio, will they also pick up more room noise?

I'm using a Blue Tube. Like it, but it's only in comparison to the on-board pres.


Thanks Again,
 
markcoburn said:
So, would a Baritone want a dark mic or a bright one?
Click to expand...

:) Hate to do this to you, but again, it all really depends. On one hand, a mic like the C1 will accentuate the barritone qualities of your voice in one of two ways: Either it will give it more of a lush, agressive quality. Or on the flip side, it could make it sound too boomy. It has the potential for either, since it is pretty well known to have an aggressive character in the low mids.

A mic like the NT2 or the Marshall mxl 2003 will bring out a lot of the high end and detail of your voice. Again, this could be good or bad. On one hand, it may sound unnatural, since being a barritone, your voice probably isn't used to sounding as bright. That could be good if it needs the extra polish for clarity, or bad if it's natural bassy character loses some of it's balls.

I would just get a neutral mic and get some practice singing and working on your breathing technique. Practice on a cheper mic, and as time goes by, you'll figure out what your voice needs and you'll know what brings that out. Those books mentioned would be a great start.
 
Mark, the key word you used is "projecting"!
Gives me the clue that your voice is probably actually large not small.
Having the nickname "megathroat" in Jr. High/High School I can relate.
(for my speaking voice-singing voice wasn't- ahem- developed yet)
You see the tendency is for the larger the voice the longer it takes to
get it under technical control. So what you're going through is perfectly
normal. Even Tom Jones got thrown out of his choir at least once for
being too loud! (solution-make him a soloist)

The comment on the C1 is based upon numerous end-user comments
and personal experimentation of different tonal qualities in my own voice.
Rolling off the low frequencies on the C1 should help most of us fellow
baritones as this microphone has a full sounding botton,
The top has a nice "sheen" without the harshness of many other low cost
microphones like the Rode NT1 (had one-sold it BTW).
The C1 was also superior to the AKG C3000B I used to own also.
(I think the C3000B is nice on female voices though)

I use the 421 a lot to record acapella singers and it certainly picks up way
less ambient noise than a normal condenser would if you group them close.
A 421 typically goes well with tube (or toob) type mic pres like the Blue Tube,
I have an Aphex 107 dual mic pre that my 421 MKII really "likes".
I still think a valid idea would be to pick up a good condenser AND a good
dynamic microphone. Then you'd have a choice of what works better on a given
song.

Chris
 
Chessrock,

This stuff gets complicated and subjective. Based on what Knightfly said, I’m guessing that the AT3035 would qualify as more “neutral” mic than say the C1 or NTs and all the other ones that I hear more talk about. I guess that the mics with more character are the ones that I’m hearing all the hype about, while the more natural ones just don’t generate the same excitement. Seems that one with more character could be equally great or bad depending on the source and your taste.
 
Chris,

Yes, I would have to say that my voice can be on the big side. A friend of mine has a more airy voice and a lot more experience too. He is actually writing and recording real music that could sell. I really like how he sounds (so does everyone else too). I’ve been trying to back off from my belt-it-out style and sound more like him. In large groups like in the pews at church or outside settings like singing around the camp fire, my voice seems quite suited. It is not hard for me to be heard. But for soft solos, I need to practice and nothing has been more helpful than using a microphone and a monitor, it really puts it back at me and forces me to back-off and at the same time stay supported enough to hold the note. I got on a bit of a tangent there but what I was realizing is that I’m not the airy type, that’s my friend, and I’m more like the type of sound that a male opera singer has in the middle range of notes. I don’t have that penetrating higher register that most of those incredible singers have.

With the AT3035, I had to employ the pad so that it would not clip the input of my Blue Tube. I'm thinking that this isn’t uncommon though, because even during the more medium loudness parts, I could hear a little clipping. I tried to leave the pad off and use the 40db one on the blue tube, but once I upped the gain to compensate the Blue Tubes noise started to come into play. With that in mind, I'm thinking that I'll want a pad on the mic I buy, unless I end up buying a different (quieter and with more input headroom) preamp for vocals and just use this Blue Tube for instruments.

I know that I want to watch out for harsh, because when I sing higher songs, I employ more of a through the teeth style and my voice displays a natural rasp. I’m thinking that a “harsh” top end will bring out the bad in that.

I think that GC has a 421. I’ll have to lock myself in a back room with headphones and give that a try. I still don’t think that I’ll know that I like it until I’ve had a few days with it at home.
 
mark, make sure that GC either has a demo Blue Tube for you to use with
the 421 or any other microphone, or bring your own.
You'll save about $100 getting an excellent used 421 at e-bay,
they last just about forever with normal use.
The money saved would get you an Audio Buddy dual mic pre for when
you want more gain with less noise (yes I'm a gearslut too!).
Try the Audio Buddy/dynamic microphone combination while you're there
too. To BUY an Oktava though you're better off getting one from The
Sound Room at www.oktava.com as they do quality checking unlike GC.
FWIW, however, still think that Studio Projects offer more value per dollar
relatively speaking for most people.

mark, you're probably trying to bring to much "weight" to your upper notes.
It's O.K. for your voice to sound lighter to you as you go up the scale.
One trick is to pretend you're really a tenor and it's EASY to sing challenging
notes-works for me anyway. Also LESS air the higher you go, MORE air the
lower you go. That book would really help you-go get it!

Chris

P.S. Most great pop baritones/basses like Bing Crosby, Nat King Cole, etc .
are valued for the richness of their voice not how high they sing.
The good news is that we tend to keep improving our voices as we
get older as long as we're healthy since they deepen with age.
 
I only have a moment but I wanted to send a quick reply to those who have taken the time to write.

Chris,

I'll take my Blue Tub in since I bought their demo.

If I like the 421, I'll try and find it used.

So I should have gotten the audio buddy and not the Blue Tube?

I'd really like to know where I can demo the SP mics here in the Portland, OR area.

I think that you are totally on about trying to bring weight. I feel like I have to maintain the same strength up there as I have naturally below. Otherwise, I sound like two different singers. I'm hot to get that book. Guess I could find it at Amazon.


Steven,

I am about 2 inches from getting the Blue Max just because it has the presets that will help me as I learn and because I have the rack piece that mounts it nicely with the Blue Tube (GC gave it to me free with the demo Blue Tube because they could not find the top cover).

But, I'm worried about buying what might be a lesser compressor just because it looks nice with my Blue Tube. That RNC that I hear talk about is not much more and it seems that everyone loves it.
 
markcoburn said:
I'm hot to get that book. Guess I could find it at Amazon.
Click to expand...

You could try Barnes & Noble; I think that's where I bought it. Taking from what you say about "belting out notes" or "singing hard" or whatever -- proper breathing technique (which the book & CD explain and teach) will get that unwanted LOUDNESS out of your delivery. It could make compression for your vox nearly unnecessary -- provided you master the breathing technique.

Read a story once about Aretha Franklin in the studio. The young engineer was about to add a compressor to the chain. She says something like "what are you doing? What are you putting in there?" "A compressor" "Honey, I am my own compressor. Leave it out." And she goes on to record a beautiful track. (Anyone know the full story/link to the article? Could've been on r.a.p. Damn my memory!)


Chad
 
Mark, my understanding is that the Blue Tube like many other low
cost mic pre's will be quieter with a "hotter" microphone ala
large diaphram condenser. Tube and toob mic pre's are partly
effects units IMHO, so you have to see how they "mate" with both
a given microphone and the specific person's voice.
The Audio Buddy would give you cleaner gain-not neccesarily
better for all uses than the Blue Tube-just to have more options.

For local Studio Project dealers try www.studioprojectsusa.com
as they have a master list. Some of the internet vendors, already have a return policy I think.

I have the "two voice" syndrome too, however, it's lessening as
my technique slowly improves over time. Maria Callas had a
"three voice" tendency though so we're in good company!

The RNC and the Blue Max are both good sounding compressors,
a truly professional project studio would prefer the RNC as it's
more flexible, and sounds somewhat more transparent at higher
compression ratios.
(I have both BTW)

Chris

P.S. I'll send you a private message later regarding the Blue Max
Don't want to stray too far off topic!
 
Just a quick aside - I keep doing it. I mean, I keep jumping into boards without introducing myself. Hello everyone. I am a home recordist and mostly done stuff with bands I'm involved with (demos with my cover band and a soon-to-be-commercially-released CD with the Christian band I'm in).

To answer your question Mark about the mics: I really don't know. I only suggested the other mics because I heard good things about them but have no personal experience with any of them. I do, however, own the C1. It is my first LD condenser mic and I am happy with it. The only problem I have is it seems to accentuate sibilance and de-essing is tricky.

You should try to use an online/catalog music store first since you can return them. Who knows, you may end up trying the mic that works best for you.

As far as compressor, I also have the RNC and it is very transparent and I am also happy with it. My current main vocal path is C1=>Blue Tube=>RNC=>Digi001/PTLE.

Gear lust is a b!tch, though, as I am now considering upgrading to a tube mic, the Rode NTK. :P
 
I found the book at Barnes for $19.96
Also at Amazon for $17.47

I was in the process of ordering it when Amazon told me that I could Identify friends who would want the same book and they would get a 10% discount. I guess that would be about $15.72. So, I thought I'd hold off and if anyone wanted the 10% discount on this book, I'd put his or her name on in the order.


Chris,

That makes sense about the hotter mic and having less noise. The less gain you have to add the better. And the input stage would benefit from a larger signal to noise ratio (oh my day job is that of a Techie Geek). I found that you could have too much of a good thing though. The AT3035 seemed too hot for the input of the Blue Tube. It was clipping no matter how much or little gain I employed at the Preamp or down the line. Once I turned on the mic’s pad (think it’s 10 db), I noticed a much cleaner signal. So, I’m thinking that for the Blue Tube, having a mic that is 10 db less sensitive won’t actually be a bad thing since I had to employ the pad just to use the AT3035 on voice. I’m sure I’m not seeing the total picture though and another preamp would be a different story.

I found a dealer in my area on the Studio Projects website. I’ll check them out soon. Their website spicificly says that they expect you to bring mics back if you are not happy and that they want to mach their customers with the right mic. I like it!


Riffing,

Good luck on the new CD. I’d be interested in hearing some clips.
 
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