First attempt to get a recording together - a couple of questions

W

Whaleblue

New member
First an apology if I'm in the wrong place or asking the wrong questions... Attached is a recording of my daughter playing guitar and singing Paramore's "The Only Exception".

Guitar is two takes, recorded once from in front of the neck a little way up from the soundhole, and about a foot away (right channel). The second is from behind the soundhole, also about a foot away (left channel).

We also double recorded the vocal as a mono track both times.

I guess I'm open to any input, but I suppose the main point is that no effects have been added, and nothing other than an auto-mixdown to stereo.

Are there any glaring errors? Any advice on how to improve on these bare bones, rather than me applying all sorts indescriminantly!

Equipment was a single cheap Behringer C1 Mic for all takes into a Presonus 22VSL and Studio One 2 Producer.

Thanks,
Wb
 
I'm getting a failure to load the file, which seems to be a routine problem with this board. Can you host it somewhere like Dropbox etc?
 
Armistice said:
I'm getting a failure to load the file, which seems to be a routine problem with this board. Can you host it somewhere like Dropbox etc?
Click to expand...

Ah, thanks for letting me know. I have a SoundCloud account so I'll put it up there and link it later when I get home.
 
I thought the guitars sounded pretty decent. The vocal did not sound well recorded. She sang well though - she has a nice voice.

If you truly want to double track the guitars and vocal, I would have your daughter practice on timing. The vocal performances were pretty tight. But the double tracked guitars had lots of syncing issues. I'm not sure what your goals are there. But like I say, if you really want good double tracked guitars and/or vocals, the performances need to be a little tighter.

How did you record the vocal? They sound pretty muffled and indistinct.

Vocal gets really loud at 2:56. A few plosives through that section.
 
The only suggestion I could make at the moment is maybe to get her to play along to a click track or metronome because as TripleM says, the guitars parts get out of sync and it diminishes the natural flow of what sounds like a good song.
I'm only listening on my laptop at the moment so I can't really say anything about the mix or the clarity.
 
TripleM, thanks for what I see as generally positive feedback on the performance - I'll pass the comments on and she'll be pleased. I have to say I was pretty pleased with the recording of the guitars, but the vocal is definitely not great. I have realised the importance of a pop filter - so we'll get on of those and try again. Other than that I'm not sure if the problems are because of poor recording or post processing (effects, and the mix) or what? They vocal almost sounds out of phase - is that possible?

Psycho Clown, thanks for the input. We actually spent the whole day recording and editing to get the guitar down well. In the end we got ourselves so tied up in knots I asked her just play the whole song through twice (for left and right mic positions) and that's what we ended up with on the track. We did use a drumbeat for her to sync to, but I suspect it was too quiet for her to hear all the time, besides it's the first time she's ever had to sync to a steady time, so she can simply work on that! It is a good song - if you don't know the original go take a listen. If you do have any suggestions for us let us know once you've had a more critical listen.

Cheers,
Wb
 
Whaleblue said:
They vocal almost sounds out of phase - is that possible?
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I thought they sort of did too. There was something that made them indistinct. I don't *think* it was phase, but it had a "phasey" sound. You said there is no processing to the tracks. So that rules out issues with delay, reverb, etc.

You typically don't have these issues due strictly to double tracking. Was it equipment related? If you used the same equipment to record the guitar I think we can rule that out as a possibility. There were no such issues with the guitar. Was her distance from the mic significantly different between the two takes? Were the two takes done in different spots in the room? Were the two takes done in different rooms? I'd look for things like that.
 
TripleM said:
I thought they sort of did too. There was something that made them indistinct. I don't *think* it was phase, but it had a "phasey" sound. You said there is no processing to the tracks. So that rules out issues with delay, reverb, etc.

You typically don't have these issues due strictly to double tracking. Was it equipment related? If you used the same equipment to record the guitar I think we can rule that out as a possibility. There were no such issues with the guitar. Was her distance from the mic significantly different between the two takes? Were the two takes done in different spots in the room? Were the two takes done in different rooms? I'd look for things like that.
Click to expand...

You may be onto something with the distance from the mic being different in the two vocal tracks. I think we'll maybe try again to get a good single track once the pop filter arrives, and try to add some reverb to see how that affects things. All very expirimental for me, but I guess this is how we learn! Cheers for now.
 
Set the pop filter to where you want it and then leave it there until all the takes are done. Have her sing with her mouth maybe two inches from the pop filter. That way the pop filter becomes kind of a measuring device to keep her a consistent distance away from the mic.

But I'm still not sure that was the cause of your issue. But certainly give it a try.
 
I think it's pretty good...she has an interesting quality to her voice, it almost sounds a little like Sinead O'Connor (however you spell that :)) or something along those lines, which is cool, because she doesn't sound like every other female singer out there.

I'm curious...why did you double the vocals?

It's just my opinion, but I think the doubling should be way less obvious...maybe don't double the entire track for starters...just some of the parts you want to accent, and then when you add the doubles, bring the volume down on them so that they are far less noticeable. Listen to some similar, commercial songs for reference and I think you might find that you rarely hear the doubled tracks so prominently when vocals are doubled.

I'd be interested to hear a version of this without the vocal doubles, or maybe just with some doubles in key places.

I think the guitar sounds decent. There are some timing things in spots. One technique that can be cool when you double a guitar and then pan hard left and right is to take the right guitar and send some of it to a reverb that's 100% wet and panned all the way to the left, and then also take the left guitar and send some of it to a reverb that's 100% wet and panned all the way right. That might help smooth things out a little. As always with things like this, I'd use it very sparingly. Use the send levels to control how much or how little you hear. If you can hear the reverbs clearly, then there may be too much :)

Speaking of that type if thing, you can get some nice vocal sounds in a sparse mix like this by doing similar things with panning of reverbs and delays on the vocals. There are "tricks" where you can make two copies of a vocal track, then nudge one slightly earlier in time (very slightly!), and one slightly later in time...pitch shift one up by just a few cents and the other one down by just a few cents, and then pull both of those doubled tracks WAY down in volume and add some reverb or delay to them. You can experiment with wet/dry balance on the effects. 100% wet and 0% dry on those secondary tracks can be nice, especially if you pan them away from center. It creates a nice effect because you get the reverb or delay on the vocal, but your vocal is still nice and clear because it sits in its own space. The effects don't gum things up too much since you've panned them away from center where the vocal is. Again, moderation is the key. Pull the faders on those secondary tracks all the way down, and then gradually move them up until you just hear the thickening of the vocal that you like as you add the effects in under the main track.

I hope this helps...grain of salt and mileage may vary and all that.

Have fun with it!

Very Best,
 
Dave, thanks so much for taking the time to respond. I will try to work out how to do what you're suggesting, and will certainly put up a new mix if we can get something better out of it. We were planning to re-record the vocal now that we have a pop filter, and in order to get it more consistent between the two takes. Thanks again, Wb.
 
Get a good single take you're happy with, or comp one together from numerous takes... then, when you have that, retrack a second take (or comp together) while she's listening to the first track, paying particular attention to lengths of notes.

When you mix, add a small amount of the second track to taste. Fairly standard recording method...
 
Armistice said:
Get a good single take you're happy with, or comp one together from numerous takes... then, when you have that, retrack a second take (or comp together) while she's listening to the first track, paying particular attention to lengths of notes.

When you mix, add a small amount of the second track to taste. Fairly standard recording method...
Click to expand...

Righto, got you. A lot of very useful input here. Thanks all. Will definitely work on getting an improved version together at the weekend.
 
If you still want to keep that doubled vocal lower Take B a few dB relative to Take A, apply a 2kHz high shelf cut of 2dB to Take B and compress it more than Take A. That will add depth to the vocal without it being obviously doubled.
 
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