Finally, a sample after 3 mths!! Give it a listen.

M

mtardif

New member
Hey all, well I picked up Sonar 2.2 XL about 3 mths ago and have been working and learning ever since. I finally put together a sample of something that I've been working on with our band for these last 3 mths, and I think it's to a point to where I wouldn't mind some others listening and giving me some tips.

My equip. specs:
- P4 3.2 GHz
- 2G RDRAM
- Windows 2000
- Recordings done through a Behringer Eurorack UB2222FX-Pro into an M Audio Duo
- everything else done in Sonar

About the song - it's by far not complete (obviously no vocals in there yet, new mic is on the way for this!). The ending is also still not complete :( The song is going to be more of a laid back ballad, but with some good feel to it. I'm still having issues with getting the different drum tracks to sound what I think is 'right'. Biggest problem is that the mix peaks now and then with the crash and snare hits. Also, I still think the kick drum needs a little more 'thump', right now it seems too abrupt but I'm not sure how to fix it. Kinda think it should resonate a little more.

Any suggestions on getting a better mix, please let em fly!! Let me know if you need eq/limiter/compression/etc. levels.

Wanted to give some thanks out to James, moskus, Middleman, Porter, dachay2tnr, wfaraoni. You guys have helped a crapload in me getting this far.

You can DL it at:


Thanks in advance for the input.
 
This should really be in the MP3 clinic but I'll give you a few thoughts here.

First, I really need to hear the vocal to put any context on the track. The vocal is generally the focal point for any song and its hard to make comments until I hear it in the mix.

Basically things sound fine except the guitars, synth and some cymbals are all cranking in the same general frequency range so it gives it a bit of a harsh sound. This occurs primarilly when the synth comes in. I would have made the pad sound a little less trebly and a bit more mellow and soft and let the guitars take the edge.

Those cymbals die out too quickly, put something on them to make them carry a little longer. Maybe some light compression with some very slow release.

There is a warbling sound I keep hearing, maybe it's a compressor pumping which makes it sound this way. Did you use a buss compressor on this? Maybe its just weird AD conversion going on, not sure but it is most apparent on the loud parts.

It's got kind of sound like "The Band" recordings or maybe Nitty Gritty Dirt band. Not sure if that's what you were after but those drums sound like they are in a small room which gives it that tone.

That's all. Move this to the MP3 clinic and work on it some more. Add that vocal and it will be easier to critic.
 
Hey, the funniest part is when I saw you online for hour in the forum, waiting for somebody to reply :D :D :D You were very curious with your first post, aren't you ? :p :)

Anyway, these gentelmen has stated their opinion about the clinic :) It's a good song basicaly, just needs to be tweaked here and there. I believe you need to put each instrument on their own space (frequecny wise) instead of fill the middle frequency only. And, you probably want to pan some instruments left and right. It sounds "all centered mono". Spread them around landscape... :) That's it... without any vocals, it's kinda little bit difficult to give more comments on it.
Anyway, indeed it's very good for "three months old" user :D Keep goin' friend :)

;)
Jaymz
 
:) Thanks all. And James, I was gonna try to lie and say I logged in and went to eat or something, but you're right, I was sitting here waiting and hitting refresh every 5 minutes!! I appreciate the advice. I'll work in getting the higher tracks into their own frequencies.

Middleman, I do have a compressor on mains, which is probably what you are hearing. I couldn't hear it here, probably need some better monitors. I guess as a general compression question, is it a good idea to have 'final' compression on the mains?? I thought I had read somewhere that it was, but I've read so much that it all may 'warbling' in my head.

Thanks for the help again, I'll post it up in the MP3 clinic :)
 
mtardif,

I'll give it a listen tonight at home... I can't download any mp3's at work..

Porter
 
I wouldn't compress the mains until I was a little farther down the tracking path. I generally don't buss compress when I am tracking because I want to hear things unaffected. If there is compression needed I put it on going in (lightly, actually light limiting) for acoustic, vocals, piano or bass.

Once I have everything EQd correctly then I will drop on the master EQ and compressor on the buss. There are some general approaches to EQ and these vary per the experience of the engineer. My approach is something like this.

-Track song idea with acoustic or piano and the vocal
-Build the bass line
-Build the drum track.
-Rearrange the whole thing to make it production-wise better.
-Add the bridge (most writers add the bridge last after building the verse chorus thing - not always though).
-Finish basic drum track, no fills no cymbals except hi hat. I build my own drums because it’s easier but here is where you get your drummer to put his part.
-Finish final bass lines to match drums
-Make decision to put bass below kick or kick below bass frequency wise.
-Rerecord the acoustic part roll off/high pass above 100-125
-Record the final vocal with slight limiting. Roll off below 150-300 depending or the voice and the style of music.
-Put the cymbals and drum fills in (not needed if you record a real drummer)
-EQ everything to make it sit right. Pan as needed
-Put in the pad sound (can be steel guitar, synth, B3, guitar, horns whatever glue fits the situation)
-EQ the pads
-Re analyze the bass line, it is the driving force and melody leader so it needs to be right and working with the other stuff.
-Add backing vocals, weird and interesting sounds, whatever.
-Tracking is done, now I'm ready for compression analyzing..

Here is where I will slap the compression on the 2 buss and a master EQ for they type of music I am doing.

If I like the sound I'm done. If I need fatter drums I sub-group them and add compression to the kick. Sometimes I put the bass in here too to get them pumping together.

I subgroup any group of instruments that need their own compression at this point.

-Re-analyze sound....

-Time for delays and reverbs. This is a whole thread so I won't go into it.

-Time for effects and automation moving towards the final mix.

This is my basic approach others and my own vary.

I didn't want to supply too many EQ tips here because it is such a subjective thing. There are numerous books, articles and this forum to teach what and how much EQ is required on various things.
 
:):)Great post, thanks for giving me that example. I've been a musician for as long as I can remember, and it has always come so natural to me. But as you can tell, actually recording the music is still so new and frustrating, because I can hear what I want in my head, just can't seem to reproduce it.

Middleman, I appreciate you laying our your approach, it's been very helpful to see what others are doing. I'm still working on finding a studio around here that will let me spend some time with them to learn, but I know its tough schooling a newbie, so thank you.

Porter, I took the MP3 off of the site. Wanted to make some changes based on some of the suggestions here before any others gave it a listen. I'll let you know when I re-post. Thanks for wanting to hear it :)
 
Switching between musician and engineer is tough. It's best to work out some templates in Sonar to speed things up.

The best way is just be the musician and draft a fellow musician, neighbor or kid to help on the engineering end while you can focus on the performance.

Good luck.
 
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