file management blues!

fprod south

fprod south

Member
Ugghhh!!! (In my best Charlie Brown voice)

This beast has literally over 100 tracks. I'm in the final stages of mixing down our album we're working on. I open this one up for the first time since May only to remember that there's zillions of sub mixes, printed effects, pre-fader sends, poorly labeled files, missing tracks - all that crap. I can't figue out how I put this thing together in the first place. I'm about to give up, but before I do I thought I'd better ask the mixing clinic.

I have two big concerns. The drums during the instrumental breaks (like in the very begining) stand out too much. And the guitar solo section is a little harsh on the ears.

My question for you - is it close enough? I really don't want to go back and try to put this tune back together from scratch, but if I have to I guess I have to.

And feel free to point out anything else that sucks in case I do go back. I can access the harmony vocals pretty easily, but everything else I'm screwed.

It's called "Belief".
http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=2146&alid=-1
 
Great tune there man. I think some of the definition in the lows is getting lost in the reverbs/delays. This might be a touch too processed for what's happening in it. I'm not sure exactly what you are able or willing to do, but I would consider cutting all reverbs by 10% and see what you've got. I'll bet it's a nice shiny beautiful song.


Tom
 
What's Up....

I never critique the quality of a recording because I have to listen at 24kbps lo-fi stream, but the overall mix sounded good to me.

As far as the songwriting and composition....I would say that it is very good, although, I was waiting for you to take me further afoot, instead of treading on the same soil. However, it was a nice place to dally for 4min.

This song sounds like a U2 cupcake with PinkFloyd candy sprinkles and a Tom Petty creamy center! I love those marching drum rhythms a la Larry Mullins Jr!

Great Tune! Thanks for sharing!


Winston
 
I agree with SLuiCe, although I love the verb's you have on this...I would cut back on the vocal effects first..see what happens, I kept trying to understand your words and they seemed to be buried in a wash of reverb(s). Just my thought's bro:) , great tune man...I dig the vibe ;)

David
 
Charlie Brown,

That's a very lush song you've put together there. The playing skills are first rate with the exception of the vocals sounding a little strained and/or uncontrolled in spots both tonally and dynamically. I am not saying this as a person with perfect pitch, as I certainly hit my share of sour notes on many occasions!

The mix in general sound very "controlled" meaning that you have tried to control so many sounds and get them to behave that many of them seemed squished dynamically and tonally. The word polite seems to come to mind, where they might be room to let at least the drums breath and kick a little.

I would say this with great respect to the musical talent that is recorded here, it does deserve a fresh and new remix, with fresh ears and a clear mind as to what you really want the song to sound like.

I hope I haven't offended you, as that is not my intention.

Cheers! :)
 
I have a hard time critiquing your stuff in terms of sound quality because I love the songs so much I don't even hear the "mix" stuff like I usually do.

One thing occurs to me: I can tell you're going for a very lush, verb-y sound, but it feels to me like it gets a little muddy in parts. Have you tried utilising delay effects instead/in addition to reverbs? I've been messing with delay a lot lately on some tunes and I've found it can really create a lot of space and "ambience" without clouding everything up the way verb can.

Just a thought. I love these tunes, and the production nitpicks certainly don't get in the way of the tunes for me. But I could also hear this tune "polished up" a little more - more depth and richness of the stereo field, a la' Peter Gabriel kinda stuff, etc.

But I also love it as is.

Chris
 
Well guys - I guess I'm going back and putting this thing together again from scratch.:( But you're all totally on target. I was just seeing the end of a 2 year project being so near only to be blocked by this big hurdle.

I was using a lot of reverb for a dreamy kind of sound, but I'm the first to admit I was using it as a crutch to get the sounds to blend.

Winston,
I gotta get some of those cupcakes! Yeah, this is a "nice place to dally" kind of tune. I'll try to take you "further afoot" on some other stuff, I promise.

freshears,
Thanks! I will try just the vocals first. But I think my problem is much deeper.

BSabbath - I'll be watching for ya

Ghost,
You didn't insult me. In fact you said some flattering things and gave a good critique. I see you're new here. Next time I want you to blatantly ignore my feelings and bash me away if I deserve it :D. You pointed out something really on the mark when you said "squished". A lot of that comes from poor tracking, especially the drums. I've learned how to track much better since then (and bought more gear:D), but I'll see what kind of unsquishinging I can do. I think the singer was going for that "vulnerable" sound. He does that a lot and seemed to really do it on this one. I did background vocals and found myself following suit.

groucho - Thanks! Glad you like it. I've got a couple forum pages bookmarked about using delay instead of verb. Something I've been meaning to learn about and mess with.

Tjarko,
Oh yeah - there's Lips influence. I saw them live not too long ago. Did you check your email?

I'll get a remix up at some point - hopefully soon. Thanks for the comments!
 
very cool! it really reminded me of early Genesis.. I couldn't figure out exactly what the guitars and keys were doing but they created a great vibe.. 100 tracks you say? wow! I don't know how this could or should be mixed because like I said, it reminded me of some Genesis and some people would be going for this sound.. some of the dirtier guitars that come in later were a bit midrangey sounding, but I don't know if I'd kill myself trying to remix it if it takes a lot of time away from something new I could be working on.. I could live with this mix and have the song be a hidden track on a CD or something.. you know how a lot of CD's have like 5 minutes of blank space at the end and then a hidden track comes in..

on third listen there isn't a lot of seperation between instruments, but it doesn't bother me too much.. I thought I heard some drum timing things..

very cool and unique sounding tune here, much like your others.. The more I listen the more I like it.. It's up to you to remix or not, but I don't know if I'd sweat it or just learn from it for the next one.. I'll look for the remix if you do..
 
I would agree that cutting the reverbs would make for a cleaner recording........however, on this song, I don't think that's what I want to hear.........I love the very wet sound on this song........it really adds to the feel here and sounds almost like a producer's artistic imprint rather than lack of clarity...........

I really, really like the song......one of my favorites on the board in a while........very nice
 
BSabbath,
No keys on there. It's all guitars. Not always strummed. A handful of the parts are me sticking the guitar in front of the speaker and banging on differnet parts of the guitar. That's probably why you're not hearing seperation. A lot of the parts are pretty mushy on their own.
Unfortunately this is going to be an important song on the album - maybe the opener. Can't hide it as a secret track, but good suggestion. You're right about drum timing. We start everything with acoustic and vocal - no click track. I tell the singer "everyone's gonna think it's the drummer's fault", but he just can't play to a click.

powderfinger,
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I am going to try to start over, but I'm holding on to this in case I don't get anywhere. And you're right, some of the reverby sound is on purpose (like the ridiculous amount on the snare), but some of it really is a crutch, so I gotta do my job and fix it.

Thanks fellas!
 
very nice tune, and interesting structure. It has a kind of "tape echoplex" sound across the rythymn section. Just a bit abrasive in the mids though. I agree on the verbs, maybe a bit much.
 
I think the best adjective I've heard describing this has been lush. Yes it's a very lush landscape. Also wide, i feel the instrumentation spread full pan more than with other things. Is that finger picked guitar that's pinging from side to side?

Writing and instrumentation sound very well done. Good luck with the file management chores i know how much of a bummer that can get.
 
Hey fprod - sorry if this has been covered elsewhere, but who is the singer on this (and the other buzzrats tunes on your page)? I assumed it was you, but no? Who's doin' what?

Chris
 
I was up late working on this and it's not as bad as I thought. Still a long way to go though. I'm glad you guys convinced me to go back.

Toki - thanks for listening. I'm working on those mids. What's a tape echoplex? Is that good or bad?

Khompewter - thanks! What I think you're referring to is an arpeggiated (well, not quite) guitar part with a delay pedal. The other electric player did that and I think it really set the tone for everything else.

groucho - Nope, never been covered. The singer is a guy named Steve who has been a folk singer since the 70's. He writes the tunes and always starts them off by laying down acoustic and vocals. We take turns laying down parts from there - none of the arrangements are written in advance. That was an expensive way to work when we used to have to rent studio space. Working at home has given us a chance to do deeper arrangements too. We're a six piece. We've also got 2 electrics (I'm one of them), bass, drums, and percussion. The tunes marked "gaelic" on my site are just the drummer and me. And the other song is just me. I'll drop you a pm.
 
Wow I love the feel to this one. I don't think the drums are too forward during the instrumental sections. I really liked those sections - all those cool guitar sounds. Pretty song. I love the feel of the chorus.

Boy, lots of verb on them vox. Too much for my tastes. I think the vox could maybe use a bit more compression. Words at the end of phrases kind of get drowned out.

The overall level of the song was pretty quiet. A limiter over the main mix might be able to help.

Little vocal sync issues here and there. A prominent one at :31. Another one at about :51.

A good 10-15 seconds of slience after the song ends.

Hope this improves an already nice song.
 
P- I was thinking about this as I was driving today. Was going to email, but thought a community response might be helpful. I was wondering, how did you end up with over 100 tracks on this sucker? I mean, some of my bigger productions don't reach more than 35. 100 tracks I would classify as a shitload!

So how many for the drummer, for the guitars, etc...
 
Great question Tom! I immediately went back and counted. There's only 80! D'oh! I could have sworn there were over 100. Maybe that's why it's not as bad as I thought.:D Do I gotta layer 20 more tracks on there to save face?;)

How did it get that way? Went fishing. Started recording on my new toy (it was new at the time). Recorded more. Woh, wouldn't that be cool if I layered some more, and more, and more...
As I'm remixing this I'm eliminating a handful (see below) that just make it muddy. I'm putting it together track by track without reverb - like you suggested. Then I'll mix the verb in. I have a feeling the band is gonna like the previous version better. :( But I'm still glad I'm doing it.

The instrumental parts have 17 guitars the first few times. An additional 13 just after the second guitar lead guitars for the outro.
12 for the guitar lead
10 rhythm guitar behind the lead (it really does make a difference there)
6 vocals (1 lead, 1 double, 4 harmony)
3 bass (1 direct, 2 reamped - got rid of 2 reamped)
8 drums (got rid of the room mic)
2 acoustic (1 part, 2 mics)
9 electric guitars in the "normal" stuff (5 actual parts - multiple mics- got rid of 1)

TripleM,
Thanks for the comments on the drums. I hear you on compressing the vocals. I think I'm going to ride the fader because his voice doesn't take compression well (or I just don't know how to use it!). Got a friend who is gonna master the album really cheap. I don't know why my levels are always so low though. He does those off sync things on purpose, but good call.
 
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