Fifty dollar mics
- Thread starter hairylarry
- Start date
hairylarry
New member
GLS cables and MF mic stands
zwh,
I agree with WhiteStrat. These cables are well worth the money.
My gig bag has a lot of mix and match XLR cables probably like most of yours do. I find myself seeking out the GLS cable a lot because of the quality and because of the extra 5 feet.
Everyone likes to rag on the cheap Musician's Friend stuff but I have had a lot of good service out of their 10 for $100 mic stands. I've used them for several years now and haven't had one break yet. And at $10 a stand that's hard to beat.
You say you don't need 10 stands. You will. Besides why buy four cheap stands for $80 when you could get 10 for $100. Free shipping too.
Now that I wrote this review I hope they still have this item for sale.
What's the good of fifty dollar mics if you have to have a $25 cable and a $25 mic stand. Sheesh for that amount of money you could buy another microphone.
Thanks,
Hairy Larry
zwh,
I agree with WhiteStrat. These cables are well worth the money.
My gig bag has a lot of mix and match XLR cables probably like most of yours do. I find myself seeking out the GLS cable a lot because of the quality and because of the extra 5 feet.
Everyone likes to rag on the cheap Musician's Friend stuff but I have had a lot of good service out of their 10 for $100 mic stands. I've used them for several years now and haven't had one break yet. And at $10 a stand that's hard to beat.
You say you don't need 10 stands. You will. Besides why buy four cheap stands for $80 when you could get 10 for $100. Free shipping too.
Now that I wrote this review I hope they still have this item for sale.
What's the good of fifty dollar mics if you have to have a $25 cable and a $25 mic stand. Sheesh for that amount of money you could buy another microphone.
Thanks,
Hairy Larry
hairylarry
New member
Naiant is often $50 for two and new
I bet it's good too. Has anyone used this rig. Anyone have any audio clips posted.
I have a stereo pair of the original MSH-1 omni condensers and I love them on my Jecklin disc. Over the weekend I recorded a Steinway Baby Grand in a private studio with this setup and it sounds great.
I will post some clips after I finish post production and upload the CD.
Until then here's my Sigma acoustic guitar recorded with two MSH-1s on a Jecklin Disc.
http://www.archive.org/details/Hairy_Larry.The_Gift
Thanks,
Hairy Larry
I bet it's good too. Has anyone used this rig. Anyone have any audio clips posted.
I have a stereo pair of the original MSH-1 omni condensers and I love them on my Jecklin disc. Over the weekend I recorded a Steinway Baby Grand in a private studio with this setup and it sounds great.
I will post some clips after I finish post production and upload the CD.
Until then here's my Sigma acoustic guitar recorded with two MSH-1s on a Jecklin Disc.
http://www.archive.org/details/Hairy_Larry.The_Gift
Thanks,
Hairy Larry
hairylarry
New member
Like Harvey says
wbcsound,
Like Harvey says, "Do you really need all that expensive stuff?"
Expensive mics and preamps have their place. And in their place they can even be considered cheap. If you add up all the costs per hour at a pro session with top musicians, engineers, producer and staff plus the cost of the facility assuring the best possible quality only makes sense.
But this is homerecording.com and most of us are on a $ budget not a time budget.
As I mentioned above I just recorded some Jazz piano and in retrospect here is how I rate the importance of the various elements that went into making this recording.
1. The performance (duh)
2. The sound of the instrument in the room (which is highly dependent on the performance)
3. Luck (maybe this should be 1)
Then way down at the bottom
99. The equipment
The total expense of all the equipment I used making the recording was less than $350. 2 Naiant MSH-1 mics, 1 M-Audio DMP2 preamp, 1 mic stand, 2 gobos, 1 Jecklin Disc, and my brand new Zoom H4 field recorder.
Of course this all has to be prorated out over many sessions. So $35 on the equipment budget for this session is probably high. It cost me more than that in gas to get there.
Suzanne Michell's studio time playing piano - 4 hrs - priceless
Actual time recorded - 1 1/2 hrs
Time on CD - 45 minutes
I think we did pretty good for next to nothing.
Thanks,
Hairy Larry
wbcsound,
Like Harvey says, "Do you really need all that expensive stuff?"
Expensive mics and preamps have their place. And in their place they can even be considered cheap. If you add up all the costs per hour at a pro session with top musicians, engineers, producer and staff plus the cost of the facility assuring the best possible quality only makes sense.
But this is homerecording.com and most of us are on a $ budget not a time budget.
As I mentioned above I just recorded some Jazz piano and in retrospect here is how I rate the importance of the various elements that went into making this recording.
1. The performance (duh)
2. The sound of the instrument in the room (which is highly dependent on the performance)
3. Luck (maybe this should be 1)
Then way down at the bottom
99. The equipment
The total expense of all the equipment I used making the recording was less than $350. 2 Naiant MSH-1 mics, 1 M-Audio DMP2 preamp, 1 mic stand, 2 gobos, 1 Jecklin Disc, and my brand new Zoom H4 field recorder.
Of course this all has to be prorated out over many sessions. So $35 on the equipment budget for this session is probably high. It cost me more than that in gas to get there.
Suzanne Michell's studio time playing piano - 4 hrs - priceless
Actual time recorded - 1 1/2 hrs
Time on CD - 45 minutes
I think we did pretty good for next to nothing.
Thanks,
Hairy Larry
MichaelJoly
Banned
Cheapo Dynamics
Hairy Larry inspired me to bulk up the cheapo dynamic mic corner of my locker. Here's what I added recently, what I paid and some listening notes. Price may vary. I'll preface this by saying I generally prefer mics with as little color, and as natural a sound as possible within their operating class (dynamic, ribbon or large & small condenser). And my ears are a bit tuned into the modified MK-219 / 319 sound as reference.
Realistic 1070c Omni - $8 and $16. Fairly pronounced upper midrange presence peak, not quite as exaggerated in this area as an SM-57 for example, but quite noticeable. Smooth mids and balanced bass but the most sibilant of this group of dynamic mics.
EV 635 Omni - $29. Wonderful. Very flat mic in the mid through upper freqs. Somewhat lean in the bass.
EV PL5 Omni - $67. Same as 635 notes above.
EV RE 15 Super Cardioid - $50. Slightly hollow in the upper bass / lower midrange, but very flat from the mids through the top end. A great mic without coloration boosts.
GLS ES-57 Cardioid ($30) Supposed SM-57 clone, a bit harsher and trashier sounding in the presence peak area than a real '57. Useful as an FX or snare mic but I wouldn't replace a real '57 with this for vocals.
The all around winner? The EV 635 Omni for $29 (but notice I had to pay $67 for the EV PL5). Just a very nice, uncolored mic with smooth spectral balance from bottom to top without wacky bass or presence boost built in.
Hairy Larry inspired me to bulk up the cheapo dynamic mic corner of my locker. Here's what I added recently, what I paid and some listening notes. Price may vary. I'll preface this by saying I generally prefer mics with as little color, and as natural a sound as possible within their operating class (dynamic, ribbon or large & small condenser). And my ears are a bit tuned into the modified MK-219 / 319 sound as reference.
Realistic 1070c Omni - $8 and $16. Fairly pronounced upper midrange presence peak, not quite as exaggerated in this area as an SM-57 for example, but quite noticeable. Smooth mids and balanced bass but the most sibilant of this group of dynamic mics.
EV 635 Omni - $29. Wonderful. Very flat mic in the mid through upper freqs. Somewhat lean in the bass.
EV PL5 Omni - $67. Same as 635 notes above.
EV RE 15 Super Cardioid - $50. Slightly hollow in the upper bass / lower midrange, but very flat from the mids through the top end. A great mic without coloration boosts.
GLS ES-57 Cardioid ($30) Supposed SM-57 clone, a bit harsher and trashier sounding in the presence peak area than a real '57. Useful as an FX or snare mic but I wouldn't replace a real '57 with this for vocals.
The all around winner? The EV 635 Omni for $29 (but notice I had to pay $67 for the EV PL5). Just a very nice, uncolored mic with smooth spectral balance from bottom to top without wacky bass or presence boost built in.
AndrewClaycomb
New member
The Naiant mic I was talking about is the X-X with the Naiant guitar mount.
I love my X-Ms, and I can't stop recommending them to people looking for great mics on a budget.
hairylarry
New member
Thank you Michael
Michael,
Thanks for your evaluation of some wonderful inexpensive mics. I'm going to intersperse some commentary and side notes. Please feel free to respond.
I don't doubt the presence peak but comparing these mics to EV 635a mics recording music outdoors I notice the extended frequency range and recording acoustic guitar I like the detail in the upper register.
I have used this mic to record one vocal in my studio but I generally don't consider this to be a vocals mic. Outdoors with wind screens dynamic omnis will win the low wind noise every time. This is true with the EV mics too.
I agree with your evaluation. I want to point out that lean in the bass doesn't mean the bass doesn't get recorded. When using EV 635a mics as a spaced pair recording in a club I would often adjust the bass in post with EQ. These are great cabinet mics for live sound. Even really close there is no proximity effect so you get the sound of the cabinet. I will hang them over the front of the cabinet pointing straight down right in front of a speaker. No stand required.
I have read of number one R&B hits sung through this mic but it is usually thought of as an interview mic or an instrument mic and is rarely chosen for a vocals mic. That said I sing through a close sibling, an EV 649b lav mic.
The 635a and the pl5 are the same mic. Either one is a steal at $50. Michael's $29 purchase was very good. The EV RE50 is the same mic too I think. Basically the RE50 is a 635a in a bigger case. The RE50 is famous for the type of field recording where you have to have batteries.
I don't know when they started making the 635a but I know they were being sold in 1970, almost 40 years ago. They are still making them today street price $125 new. One of the most popular mics of all time. So don't believe it when you read rare EV 635a microphone.
I cut my teeth on a pair of EV 635a mics and a cassette deck and I recommend it to anyone wanting to learn recording. Get a pair of dynamic omnis and experiment with placement. Just remember they're omnis so x-y won't give you stereo. A spaced pair or a Jecklin Disc work well with omnis. And if the EV 635a mics are a bit above your reach the Realistic 1070b omnis are a very similar mic available inexpensively by anyones standards. Made by Shure for Radio Shack they are a deliberate copy of the very popular RE50. Some of us prefer them for field recording.
Again Michael got a great buy. It may be because of the economy but I have noticed a softness in the used mic market recently.
I hope I get this right.
The EV RE10 and the EV RE15 are the same microphone.
The EV RE11 and the EV RE16 are the same microphone.
The EV RE18 is the same as the EV RE16 with some enhanced shielding for use in video studios.
These are all exactly the same with minor differences. The RE11 and RE16 have built in pop screen for use as a vocals mic. The RE10 and the RE15 do not so they are thought of as instrument mics.
If you want a stereo pair you need two RE15s or two RE16s. Or two RE18s. These mics were selected to fit an exacting frequency standard so any two RE15s, for example, would make a stereo pair.
So the RE15s, RE16s, and RE18s are generally more expensive than the RE10s and the RE11s. If you've got fifty bucks and some patience you can pick up an RE10 or an RE11. The other three I would generally consider to be $100 range microphones depending on condition from $75 and up to over $100.
And there's nothing wrong with the RE10s or RE11s. Same microphones. They are very reliable. I have an RE10 that looks like a truck backed over it and it works great. Great harp mic. My cosmetically challenged RE10 was a real bargain. Michael got an RE15 for an RE10 price.
I haven't used the GLS mics but many on this board love them. Especially for snare and guitar cabinets.
I think any of the mics discussed here would be good for newbies wanting to get their feet wet without spending a lot of money. And they are also great bargains for professional studios. Many of the greatest recordings of all time were made using some of these mics. And we all know they will be used on the great recordings of tomorrow. The ones we make.
Thanks,
Hairy Larry
Michael,
Thanks for your evaluation of some wonderful inexpensive mics. I'm going to intersperse some commentary and side notes. Please feel free to respond.
I don't doubt the presence peak but comparing these mics to EV 635a mics recording music outdoors I notice the extended frequency range and recording acoustic guitar I like the detail in the upper register.
I have used this mic to record one vocal in my studio but I generally don't consider this to be a vocals mic. Outdoors with wind screens dynamic omnis will win the low wind noise every time. This is true with the EV mics too.
I agree with your evaluation. I want to point out that lean in the bass doesn't mean the bass doesn't get recorded. When using EV 635a mics as a spaced pair recording in a club I would often adjust the bass in post with EQ. These are great cabinet mics for live sound. Even really close there is no proximity effect so you get the sound of the cabinet. I will hang them over the front of the cabinet pointing straight down right in front of a speaker. No stand required.
I have read of number one R&B hits sung through this mic but it is usually thought of as an interview mic or an instrument mic and is rarely chosen for a vocals mic. That said I sing through a close sibling, an EV 649b lav mic.
The 635a and the pl5 are the same mic. Either one is a steal at $50. Michael's $29 purchase was very good. The EV RE50 is the same mic too I think. Basically the RE50 is a 635a in a bigger case. The RE50 is famous for the type of field recording where you have to have batteries.
I don't know when they started making the 635a but I know they were being sold in 1970, almost 40 years ago. They are still making them today street price $125 new. One of the most popular mics of all time. So don't believe it when you read rare EV 635a microphone.
I cut my teeth on a pair of EV 635a mics and a cassette deck and I recommend it to anyone wanting to learn recording. Get a pair of dynamic omnis and experiment with placement. Just remember they're omnis so x-y won't give you stereo. A spaced pair or a Jecklin Disc work well with omnis. And if the EV 635a mics are a bit above your reach the Realistic 1070b omnis are a very similar mic available inexpensively by anyones standards. Made by Shure for Radio Shack they are a deliberate copy of the very popular RE50. Some of us prefer them for field recording.
Again Michael got a great buy. It may be because of the economy but I have noticed a softness in the used mic market recently.
I hope I get this right.
The EV RE10 and the EV RE15 are the same microphone.
The EV RE11 and the EV RE16 are the same microphone.
The EV RE18 is the same as the EV RE16 with some enhanced shielding for use in video studios.
These are all exactly the same with minor differences. The RE11 and RE16 have built in pop screen for use as a vocals mic. The RE10 and the RE15 do not so they are thought of as instrument mics.
If you want a stereo pair you need two RE15s or two RE16s. Or two RE18s. These mics were selected to fit an exacting frequency standard so any two RE15s, for example, would make a stereo pair.
So the RE15s, RE16s, and RE18s are generally more expensive than the RE10s and the RE11s. If you've got fifty bucks and some patience you can pick up an RE10 or an RE11. The other three I would generally consider to be $100 range microphones depending on condition from $75 and up to over $100.
And there's nothing wrong with the RE10s or RE11s. Same microphones. They are very reliable. I have an RE10 that looks like a truck backed over it and it works great. Great harp mic. My cosmetically challenged RE10 was a real bargain. Michael got an RE15 for an RE10 price.
I haven't used the GLS mics but many on this board love them. Especially for snare and guitar cabinets.
I think any of the mics discussed here would be good for newbies wanting to get their feet wet without spending a lot of money. And they are also great bargains for professional studios. Many of the greatest recordings of all time were made using some of these mics. And we all know they will be used on the great recordings of tomorrow. The ones we make.
Thanks,
Hairy Larry
MichaelJoly
Banned
You're welcome, it was fun evaluating those mics - and thanks especially for the Realistic 1070 tip.
I agree with you that the presence peak in the 1070c would be quite useful as an outdoor, acoustic guitar recording mic. My frame of reference is mostly in-studio mics and I often forget about live venue requirements.
Re: my “lean bass” comment about the EV 635 – You’re right - bass does get recorded, and recorded with low phase shift. I think what I meant to say is that without proximity effect the bass is ‘leaner’ than one would expect if used to working with cardioid mics. In fact, and you allude to this, an omni mic often gives the recordists much more flexibility in post-production with bass EQ because the source hasn’t had a layer of proximity effect boost and phase shift smeared all over it.
Say what R&B hit was recorded with a 635? I know Emitt Rhodes used a few EVs on his first solo record in 1969 – still a high-water mark for a one man band outing in a Beatle-eque vein.
I agree with you that the presence peak in the 1070c would be quite useful as an outdoor, acoustic guitar recording mic. My frame of reference is mostly in-studio mics and I often forget about live venue requirements.
Re: my “lean bass” comment about the EV 635 – You’re right - bass does get recorded, and recorded with low phase shift. I think what I meant to say is that without proximity effect the bass is ‘leaner’ than one would expect if used to working with cardioid mics. In fact, and you allude to this, an omni mic often gives the recordists much more flexibility in post-production with bass EQ because the source hasn’t had a layer of proximity effect boost and phase shift smeared all over it.
Say what R&B hit was recorded with a 635? I know Emitt Rhodes used a few EVs on his first solo record in 1969 – still a high-water mark for a one man band outing in a Beatle-eque vein.
Carny1122
Plugin Whore
I own seven of these little buggers and I LOVE them.
I also own the Karma K-35 LDC, and both mics are fantastic. I've used the K micros for overheads (VERY hot mics, I kinda wish they had a pad...but you wouldn't even have anywhere to fit it!
) and I use both the K-35 and the K micros in conjunction with one another to record acoustic and I get a fantastic sound (and the Breedlove doesn't hurt the sound much, either.... 
)
Carny1122
Plugin Whore
Okay so I just read through the whole thread and it seems that everyone is interested in the K-micro's sound...
I'll try to throw up the song later tonight that I have recorded with them on OH's, and I've got an acoustic song that isn't done yet...the acoustic was done entirely with the Karma brand so I'll make my brother finish it soon so you can all criticize his acoustic technique
As for now, I'll say this.
they sound decent, very flat, pretty natural, and they're sensitive as HELL. I would never imagine close micing a kit with them, everything would sound like everything else....you'd be bleeding everywhere....
I'll try to throw up the song later tonight that I have recorded with them on OH's, and I've got an acoustic song that isn't done yet...the acoustic was done entirely with the Karma brand so I'll make my brother finish it soon so you can all criticize his acoustic technique
As for now, I'll say this.
they sound decent, very flat, pretty natural, and they're sensitive as HELL. I would never imagine close micing a kit with them, everything would sound like everything else....you'd be bleeding everywhere....
TyphoidHippo
1Trillion K Platinum User
I own seven of these little buggers and I LOVE them.
I also own the Karma K-35 LDC, and both mics are fantastic. I've used the K micros for overheads (VERY hot mics, I kinda wish they had a pad...but you wouldn't even have anywhere to fit it!
Excellent feedback! Do you have the "new" K-Micros that are supposed to handle high SPL or some from the original batch of them?
Carny1122
Plugin Whore
I do
IMHO, they're falsely advertised(in a positive way, you could say)...yeah, they've got a high SPL, yeah, they're mini condensers, yeah, they pick up sound very well...but I would never use them for micing a drum kit as I would normal drum mics like a set of PG56's of Opus mics or anything. They're just too sensitive for that.
But like I said, I'll throw up a few songs later if I'm able to (now that I'm home for winter break, mom is making me organize the garaga..ugh..) and you guys can judge for yourselves about how they sound. I'll maybe try to just get something acoustic together that is ONLY K-micros so you can really judge 'em.
I like them, though!
I never got to use any of the older version ones, I just kinda went out on a whim and figured hey, 7 of them for $80? If they suck, I'll return them!
mshilarious
Banned
I do
IMHO, they're falsely advertised(in a positive way, you could say)...yeah, they've got a high SPL, yeah, they're mini condensers, yeah, they pick up sound very well...
The new version K-micro is an OK mic. Can't beat the price! The SPL is more like 118dBSPL, not 145dBSPL. Without going into the physics, that would be impossible for a capsule of that type without a severe noise penalty. But 118dBSPL is going to be generally adequate for toms. The initial peak will probably suffer 5% distortion or so, but it's very hard to hear distortion at that level on a fast transient. It may even be preferred as a form of compression.
Also they are omni, not sure why Karma says they are cardioid, because omnis are much better anyway
TyphoidHippo
1Trillion K Platinum User
The new version K-micro is an OK mic. Can't beat the price! The SPL is more like 118dBSPL, not 145dBSPL. Without going into the physics, that would be impossible for a capsule of that type without a severe noise penalty. But 118dBSPL is going to be generally adequate for toms. The initial peak will probably suffer 5% distortion or so, but it's very hard to hear distortion at that level on a fast transient. It may even be preferred as a form of compression.
Also they are omni, not sure why Karma says they are cardioid, because omnis are much better anyway
Spectacular. Thanks for the info! That's probably way too low for a snare, huh? I'm ordering some right now, heh...I've been meaning to order them forever, just kept putting it off.
hairylarry
New member
This is great
TyphoidHippo,
Be sure to let us know what you think of them. And I appreciate Carny1122 in advance for throwing up some clips. If we can link to clips for many of the mics discussed that will really help people understand the differences.
mshilarious thanks for the solid information. It actually sounds like we're all talking about the same mic. And these are price competitive with the Realistic 1070b, one of the least expensive mics discussed.
Still researching on the EV635a R&B link but I have found a few more side references that make me think maybe. I sent a message to chessparov. Anyone remember chessparov? Does he still post?
Thanks,
Hairy Larry
TyphoidHippo,
Be sure to let us know what you think of them. And I appreciate Carny1122 in advance for throwing up some clips. If we can link to clips for many of the mics discussed that will really help people understand the differences.
mshilarious thanks for the solid information. It actually sounds like we're all talking about the same mic. And these are price competitive with the Realistic 1070b, one of the least expensive mics discussed.
Still researching on the EV635a R&B link but I have found a few more side references that make me think maybe. I sent a message to chessparov. Anyone remember chessparov? Does he still post?
Thanks,
Hairy Larry
Carny1122
Plugin Whore
I'l get 'em up tonight for sure, I was pretty busy last night and couldn't get to it, and I'm at work now, so I can't do too much here. And I agree, the SPL definitely isn't 145, maybe more around 120 or so. They probably measured 145 @ 1 kHz, it could probably handle that.
mshilarious
Banned
No, mics don't vary that much in distortion across the spectrum, other than as their frequency response would indicate. Certainly not a 27dB difference. I measured 118dBSPL at 1% THD at 1kHz; I can measure other frequencies for you, but I doubt it would be different. Actually I just measured 220Hz, it's the same. I would venture they didn't measure it at all--the noise spec is also a complete fiction. I can't measure noise as accurately, but I would guess 26dBA, vs. their 16dBA rating. Should not matter on drums, but would be troublesome on quieter sources.
The funny thing to me is if the K-Micro specs were accurate, why would anybody buy a K10 (whose specs I suspect are much closer to reality)? They are cannibalizing their own sales . . .
Hey, I just retested the mic, and noticed it was reverse polarity. Keep that in mind when micing drums!
mshilarious
Banned
Here's a comp, I hesitate to post these because my kit is crap and I'm not a drummer, but hey, I can beat out quarter notes . . . I can't hit as hard as a real drummer though.
One channel is the K-Micro and the other is another condenser microphone of the same basic type. Don't try to guess which, because I won't tell you, and your guess will likely be wrong anyway.
I'll post which channel is the K-Micro this evening.
Both mics about 1" from each drum. The last sample is a front side kick with the pillow removed, and I'm beating it as hard as I can with a mallet. Not a particularly musical sound, but I like it for testing drum mics because a) it's really loud, and b) it's a bit easier to hear distortion--if present--on the peak.
Preamp is ART Digital MPA, which can take severely loud input levels with no trouble. No pad used on either mic. Each channel was normalized (the K-Micro started off about 4dB louder), but no other processing other than .mp3 conversion.
One channel is the K-Micro and the other is another condenser microphone of the same basic type. Don't try to guess which, because I won't tell you, and your guess will likely be wrong anyway.
I'll post which channel is the K-Micro this evening.
Both mics about 1" from each drum. The last sample is a front side kick with the pillow removed, and I'm beating it as hard as I can with a mallet. Not a particularly musical sound, but I like it for testing drum mics because a) it's really loud, and b) it's a bit easier to hear distortion--if present--on the peak.
Preamp is ART Digital MPA, which can take severely loud input levels with no trouble. No pad used on either mic. Each channel was normalized (the K-Micro started off about 4dB louder), but no other processing other than .mp3 conversion.