Failed For You - More sappy crap

K

ksounds

Active member
Here's a new one, very much in the vein of the last few I've done. Pretty sappy, be warned.

Would love to know what you guys think of the song/mix. What can I do to improve it. Does it suck/does it not? Spent two days with it, so I really can't tell. Lyrics are a bit cliched, but oh well. It's called "Failed For You". Done in garageband.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=805880&content=music

You said,"I'm afraid of love."
I said,"I'm afraid of love too."
I can't fix every crack in the wall.
I can't cry every time someone falls.
But I can wait until you need, you need me too.
I will stop, get off this train, to be with you.
If I fail, I failed for you.

You said,"I'm afraid of love."
I said,"I'm afraid of love too."
I can't free every bird from it's cage.
I can't read every word on a page.
But I can wait until you need, you need me too.
I will stop, get off this train, to be with you.
If I fail, I failed for you.
 
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Marcadiablo said:
I think it sounds great. Maybe its my new headphones, but I find the bass sometimes too loud.
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Completely agree. Compressed it a bit more, and scooped out sub/lower frequencies. It was one of the garageband analog synth patches. A little hard to tame, but it sounds pretty cool I think. In fact, all the organ/synth sounds are garageband instruments. Uploaded a new version. Thanks for listening.
 
I think this sounds great. I love the chord progresion. I'd bring the bass synth in closer to the centre myself but that's just personal taste. Your vocal is well captured, it reminds me of john lennon with the verb choice.

Listening in the cans as it's 3am here but I'll be back for another listen tomorrow.

Really liked the song. I was waiting for drums kicking in at some point but when I realised they weren't going to I didn't miss them (if that makes sense). Yeah, bloody good job. :)
 
At 1:00, 1:27, 2:50. 3:14 and 3:36 there is a chord with an indefinite root...hard to tell without careful listening if the minor or the relative major is intented. Kind of weak where the tonality should be strongest..it's kind of a crux of the tune...and it gets lost, leaving the ear guessing. I think a strong low-string root note in the bass might take care of it. The organ is the main culprit, I think....

The church organ is laying on everything, crushing by its shear weight....playing non-chord tones...muddying up the progressions. I think it should be held back for at least another cycle, and have some rythm and punctuation to make breathing room. Maybe be introduced and let out the door a few times with volume editing. I actually think the song would be better without that track entirely. There's a lot going on...mostly too much. I don't think it'd be missed.

Some kind of percussion would be a really nice flavor, later in the playout. Tamborine. Better, I think, would be a simple . tastee kit...a la Neil Young "Harvest" sort of thing....as Lemon hinted at. I felt for it , too.

It's a really good tune, grown a little thick....overwhelming the really nice, flowing, airy basic guitar and vocal thing going on under the clutter.

IMHO....get out the chainsaw and cut, cut, cut.
 
LemonTree said:
Your vocal is well captured, it reminds me of john lennon with the verb choice.

Really liked the song. I was waiting for drums kicking in at some point but when I realised they weren't going to I didn't miss them (if that makes sense). Yeah, bloody good job. :)
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Actually, his Phils Spector stuff was the kind of sound I was going for on the vocal track. Cool! Thanks alot.

jeffmaher said:
The church organ is laying on everything, crushing by its shear weight....playing non-chord tones...muddying up the progressions. I think it should be held back for at least another cycle, and have some rythm and punctuation to make breathing room. Maybe be introduced and let out the door a few times with volume editing.

Some kind of percussion would be a really nice flavor, later in the playout. Tamborine. Better, I think, would be a simple . tastee kit...a la Neil Young "Harvest" sort of thing....as Lemon hinted at. I felt for it , too.

It's a really good tune, grown a little thick....overwhelming the really nice, flowing, airy basic guitar and vocal thing going on under the clutter.

IMHO....get out the chainsaw and cut, cut, cut.
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I think the tambourine is a GREAT idea. Something very sparse...I'll add it tonight.

You're right about the organ too. Maybe it was a little much. I still like it though and would like to try and keep it in. I've posted a new mix, dropped it down a few dbs, brought it in and out of the song. I think it works alot better now, but maybe it's still not necessary? Also, have a little synth texture in there panning around towards the middle/end. I kind of like it. Again, maybe not necessary? I just want to try and introduce small things to keep the listener interested. Anyway, just updated a new version. Thanks for your feedback Jeff. I look forward to adding that Tambourine:)
 
Does not suck and not overly sappy. That is my shorthand review...:)

No, I actually think this is really nice...quite far from sucking. The lyrics you wrote could have come across as sappy, but I think the way you sang it gives it just a nice earnestness that does not make one cringe as sappy tunes are sometimes prone to do.

I really like the vocals as I often do with your tunes. I did think the delay was a little too pronounced on them though...not bad, it just drew attention to itself especially during some quieter moments especially near the beginning.

It's good that you're cranking these out on a semi-regular basis lately. I always look forward to hearing them...thanks!:)
 
jeffmaher said:
Some kind of percussion would be a really nice flavor, later in the playout. Tamborine. Better, I think, would be a simple . tastee kit...a la Neil Young "Harvest" sort of thing....as Lemon hinted at. I felt for it , too.

It's a really good tune, grown a little thick....overwhelming the really nice, flowing, airy basic guitar and vocal thing going on under the clutter.

IMHO....get out the chainsaw and cut, cut, cut.
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Alright Jeff. I took some time tonight and cleaned the mix up. Added some kick and tamborine accents to the song. Cut back on the organ, and just got it to where I think it was sounding pretty good

heatmiser said:
Does not suck and not overly sappy. That is my shorthand review...:)

No, I actually think this is really nice...quite far from sucking. The lyrics you wrote could have come across as sappy, but I think the way you sang it gives it just a nice earnestness that does not make one cringe as sappy tunes are sometimes prone to do.

I really like the vocals as I often do with your tunes. I did think the delay was a little too pronounced on them though...not bad, it just drew attention to itself especially during some quieter moments especially near the beginning.

It's good that you're cranking these out on a semi-regular basis lately. I always look forward to hearing them...thanks!:)
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Thanks Heat. I always appreciate your comments/feedback. Your one of the few who I can say have stuck around me since I first started posting in the analog forums. Not many of those guys come around the clinic very often. Anyway, feelings mutual. I'm always keeping an eye out for a few people who post to the clinic, you being one of them. Hopefully I will keep wanting to write and record, but it's really an ebb and flow thing with me. Next one I post is going to be something different though. Something a little more forward I think, little more upbeat, we'll see.

New mix has been posted. Like the mix, though not quite sure about the drums. We'll see if anyone has any comments. Vocally, I feel like this song in particular was something different for me, maybe not the best thing I've done, but I'm glad you liked them. I liked them.
 
The tambo sounds great...it's the only thing making noise in the HF range..except a little of the guitar 'shling' ...and I missed it when it was cut after 3:00 somewhere. Just right...a little dab. Tastee! 'chic-a-chic'

All the sound is more up-front, I think. And the organ is blending.

The only other thing I could suggest is to try all or some the synth parts up an octave [an easy midi transposition...if it's midi]. It's sounding in the range of the upper bass and lower guitar; and at the end, there are notes like the sus2 that the synth lays on...over the bar lines n' such; and because it's way down low, it steals thunder from the bass and/or root tonality. I think it might work a lot better up an octave...maybe two. I think it might have been a major player in muddying the root tonality when I heard the original version. Not so bad anymore....except the outtro, where it lays on the 2 note in the bass range. Although it does lend a bit of ambiguity to the song....which might reflect a tangle of emo conveyed....or add to it: the lyric is matter-of-fact declaritive; but the tonal ambiguity stirs a gut feeling in me that maybe the singer is not so sure of the declarations......a reflection of real life!

The tune is really nice. I love the way I get to chew on the meaning of the lyric in the spaces between. A nice listen, fer sure.
 
jeffmaher said:
The tambo sounds great...it's the only thing making noise in the HF range..except a little of the guitar 'shling' ...and I missed it when it was cut after 3:00 somewhere. Just right...a little dab. Tastee! 'chic-a-chic'

The tune is really nice. I love the way I get to chew on the meaning of the lyric in the spaces between. A nice listen, fer sure.
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Glad you like the tambourine. As soon as you mentioned it, I knew exactly where to put it and how I wanted to treat it. I killed it during the outro to define the final part of the song for the listener. I felt it all bled together just a bit too much left in.

Thanks alot. You've helped me with this mix alot. You helped alot with my last song as well. I think both came out better for it. Nice to have people on the clinic who take the time to help and comment.

jeffmaher said:
I think it might have been a major player in muddying the root tonality when I heard the original version. Not so bad anymore....except the outtro, where it lays on the 2 note in the bass range. Although it does lend a bit of ambiguity to the song....which might reflect a tangle of emo conveyed....or add to it: the lyric is matter-of-fact declaritive; but the tonal ambiguity stirs a gut feeling in me that maybe the singer is not so sure of the declarations......a reflection of real life!.
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I tried pushing some of the synth stuff up into the higher frequency range...didn't like it. I like your comment about the tangle of emo conveyed...that has a nice ring to it. I think your description here about tonal ambiguity and the parallels to the singer work in favor of the song and it's message. My gut feeling tells me the the current version is the definitive mix of the song, and that it's time to move on to my next adventure:)
 
cantthinkofname said:
very nice!:):D
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Thanks dude.

I know I said previously that that was the definitive mix, but I'm thinking the cheese factor on this one is kind of high - so the mix makes or breaks it. It happens sometimes. I decided to reapproach the mix one more time based on what Heat was saying about the vocal delay thing, and what Jeff was saying about cutting the organ out completely. I did this with my last song I posted, but I remixed a much dryer version, cut all the synths and vocal treatments. Figured I might as well throw it out and see if stuck. I really think I like it better. I think you were right Jeff, just take the chainsaw out and start cutting.
 
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Yea! That was nice; but the removal of the organ and synth brings some other track problems to the foreground that couldn't be heard when they were in.

There's a good bit of pop-snapping going on that wasn't audible under the thick mix. [and if I can detect it, it's loud, fer sure!] Is that foot tapping on a hard floor or something? It sounds like record crackle, or edits, at other times. What is that? Digital aetifact from compression and spread? {Oh yeah...the compression on the acoustic could be let off a couple notches...the shelf is real obvious....]

How did you spread the guitar?? I sounds like a digital expansion. The HF fret noise is right....the lows and mids sound left. Maybe stereo mics? Real close??

The problem is that it sounds un-natural. Like it's spread too much [my nose is in the soundhole] ....and the squeeks are a little distracting up in the R corner. And it defines a space of a room with the walls at about 30% left and right. Then the ambience on the vocal [which is too low in the dry mix, I think] defies those boundaries. In the full mix, it worked...in the dry mix, it doesn't, I think...to me.

I miss the low frequency of the organ's bass parts, and the chic-a-chic of the tam.

Do you have original tracks?

Here's what I would do if I did....and it were my tune. I'd narrow the field of the guitar, clean up the fractional frequency splitting [if that's what it is].... and not use any FX on it...except to EQ it as necessary, later. Pump that vocal a lot more...and dry, too...with a little more presence. Some of the words are hard to grasp...syllabants buried....in the new mix. Might be just leveled down??

I'd add string bass....or better, upright...or one of those 'guitar-basses' to use the bottom freqs...added after the first cycle...the fast decay of the notes leaving breathing space the organ could not. Real simple roots and 5ths. Like a broken bluegrass ballad feel. Drop some of the regular eighths...open it up. Basically the organ's part, with a fast decay.

Keep the tambo...using the HF...tweaking the ear as it did before...it was a nice tasteful touch.

The mando is real nice.

I'd 'wood' this thing up...real simple...like I was listening in a big barn in upstate NY.

Then I'd mix vox ctr , guitar just L [to bury the fret squeek under the vox ctr], bass further right. And the mando and tam opposing the bass pan...all within somewhere about 40% both sides; and add a single, overall verb and/or delay to define a single space for the performance, that has the virtual walls out at 80%. [pardon my ignorance of actual engineering terms for this stuff...]

It's a beautiful song.....and I like the way you sing it. I actually get a chill in some spots. It stands on its own without a lot of added sugar! But I do miss the tam and bottom freqs.

One edit suggestion: the part at 1:45...a slight break before the first mando part...sounds a little time-shakey? I'd give it a good listen , and see if I could get the time represented better. It sounds like an error the first time heard...the second time, not so much...but there's something strange about it. The groove drops...then starts again.after something misleads the tempo...or something.
 
Jeff is on point with his comments. My comments on the song (I am on a laptop so won't second guess Jeff's ears) is that: When the song started, I hated it. Then the chorus/break came and it started to grow on me and by the end I was into it so I listened to it again. I like the song now. I didn't like the reverb version at all, I prefered the dry version. I like your falsetto. If you edit and repost let us know, I would like to listen again.
 
jeffmaher said:
There's a good bit of pop-snapping going on that wasn't audible under the thick mix. [and if I can detect it, it's loud, fer sure!] Is that foot tapping on a hard floor or something? It sounds like record crackle, or edits, at other times. What is that? Digital aetifact from compression and spread? {Oh yeah...the compression on the acoustic could be let off a couple notches...the shelf is real obvious....]
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It was a spaced micking technique. I only have two mics, a large and mid size diaphragm. They were panned, so that explains the different tones. Also, there seems to be some pick scraping on the pick guard in the beginning of the song. It tapers off pretty quickly. At this point, warts and all I guess. Yeah, there was a tad too much compression as well. Moved everything to the left, backed off the compression, adjusted levels, really dry.

jeffmaher said:
Pump that vocal a lot more...and dry, too...with a little more presence. Some of the words are hard to grasp...syllabants buried....in the new mix. Might be just leveled down??

I'd add string bass....or better, upright...or one of those 'guitar-basses' to use the bottom freqs...added after the first cycle...the fast decay of the notes leaving breathing space the organ could not. Real simple roots and 5ths. Like a broken bluegrass ballad feel. Drop some of the regular eighths...open it up. Basically the organ's part, with a fast decay.

Keep the tambo...using the HF...tweaking the ear as it did before...it was a nice tasteful touch.

The mando is real nice.

I'd 'wood' this thing up...real simple...like I was listening in a big barn in upstate NY.

Then I'd mix vox ctr , guitar just L [to bury the fret squeek under the vox ctr], bass further right. And the mando and tam opposing the bass pan...all within somewhere about 40% both sides; and add a single, overall verb and/or delay to define a single space for the performance, that has the virtual walls out at 80%. [pardon my ignorance of actual engineering terms for this stuff...]
Click to expand...

I don't have a real bass, much less an upright bass. The midi voices I do have sound terrible. I think the original sub bass sample works good still. So added that back in and panned right. Also brought the tambourine back up and carried it through the rest of the mix. Posted is now what I consider to be the definitive mix, though I've said that before. Anymore work I do to this song, I will have to come back to at a later time, as I'm pretty tired of listening to it and am now becoming over critical. Tried to touch on everything you've mentioned considering the mix. Also, the vocals are pretty dry, at least compared to previous vocal treatments. Thanks for listening to this song a bizillion times now Jeff. That's alot to ask.

TaintedDb said:
When the song started, I hated it...If you edit and repost let us know, I would like to listen again.
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I know how you feel:rolleyes:

As I stated from the beginning, this is kind of sappy stuff, and I imagine alot of people never make it past the first two lines, so thanks for sticking with it. I appreciate the comments. BTW, updated version posted.
 
I guess 'sappy' depends on whether you're flying high on life with everything going your way...or sort of living the story. I resemble those remarks. I like it.
 
Took another listen: I hate that you say cracks in the wall.. I would change to cracks in your heart. I also was really anticipating the tambourine and wanted it more in a 4/4 style. Like the song, reminds me of something you would hear in a chick flick movie :) And I like chick flick movies:eek:
 
Very nice, K!
Really reminds one of those late John Lennon tunes, in a good way. Very well-written song, catchy in the right places, nice lyrics. Great job, well done!

Joey :):):):)
 
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