Expensive vs. Cheap Amps

Lopp

Lopp

New member
I often read threads where people state cheap amps and modelers are just as good as, if not better than expensive amps. I really want to believe this. I want to think I can plug in a modeler and get the same tones as an "overpriced" amp. I want to believe makers of high end equipment are just riding their reputation and the cheaper stuff does a better job for a better price.

I can't.

Granted, some inexpensive stuff does give a great bang for the buck. Also, if you really search and audition tons of amps, maybe you can find one that sounds damn good.

However, from my experience, the cheaper stuff does not sound as good as the high end gear.

As an example, I have auditioned the POD a few times, have owned a RP100, currently own a Korg Pandora and a Peavey Bravo, among other amps. Yet they just don't compare to my Boogie Quad (which isn't that expensive). More drastically, I just got my TriAxis back from Boogie. My God. It even (IMHO) blows away the Quad. The lower end stuff doesn't even compare.

I say IMHO because tone is subjective. Hell, if you like your modeler, more power to you. A big part of the equation is whether you like your tone.

I find it more interesting that some people say a POD (or whatever) is better for recording. *PFFT* I say a POD is great for laying down scratch tracks. It is even probably great for playing live. But for recording your final product. Yeah right. I would almost hazard to say it is more important to record a great tone than to play one live.

The tone you record is etched forever and people will listen to it over and over again. The recorded track captures all the subtle nuances of your tone. Live is influenced by many other factors like environmental noise, room dynamics, competency of your soundman, etc. These factors are more controllable when recording. Granted, if you have a great tone live, it is easier to sound good regardless of external factors.

It would be great if the modelers sounded just as good as the high end stuff. Then I could sell my expensive stuff and just keep the modelers.

However, from my experience, that just isn't the case.
 
The main thing about modellers you didn't mention is the flexability. I do admit my marshall stack does sound better than PODxt JCM800 preset but it's damn close and I do have the flexability to use different cabs as well.

I would love to have every amp and effects unit that my PODxt emulates but I don't have about 50,000 laying around. If modellers could everything identical then there would be no need for the real thing. Now if they came out with a guitar amp that was jointly made by Marshall/fender/mesa/soldano/etc...etc... I'd buy it. Until then there rarely is a project that I do that doesn't have my PODxt on it just due to its flexability.

Since I got my Variax 500 with the Workbench and my PODxt. I haven't even touched my 10 other guitars. I do however still use my marshall.
 
I picked up a Kustom Quad 100 for a little over £300. It is not valve but its sounds awesome and i would not change it for the world!!!! In conjunction with this i like to use my behringer v-amp2 and when i play gigs people always comment on the sound.

I think that the sound of a marshall stack is over rated to be very honest. So many people use them and imho i think people like the sound of modellers because it is a different sound! Although they are close they aint the same.

So why bother lugging a big marshall head and a 4x12 cab when you can use a more compact amp and a modeller and have so much more variety to choose from!

However it is individual preference! If you dont like the sound from a small or cheap amp or a modeller then go buy the real thing else you will never be happy with the sound!
 
I've been through a bunch of amps in my guitar life - starting off with a super-cheap little practice amp, going up through more expensive transitor amps and ending up with a fairly expensive Fender valve amp (the Fender Custom Vibrolux Reverb).

I've discovered 3 main things that an expensive amp will give you over a cheaper model:
Great tone
Versatility
Responsiveness

...the last of the three being the most important and most surprising.

I've heard many pieces of amp-modeling software, and some are very good at what they do, but what they can never offer is the way in which a good amp responds to the way you play the guitar.
When I'm using my Fender every nuance of my playing comes through - and that's what you pay for.

I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule - great cheap amps exist (the Blues Junior is meant to be excellent), just as there are crappy expensive amps; but in my experience you generally get what you pay for.
 
Responsiveness!!!

Codmate has hit on something that rarely is discussed when it comes to amps. Guitar is not my main axe, but I do play well enough (and have worked with enough fine guitar players) to realize that playing technique is more important than any other factor in getting great tone - and the amps ability to respond to that technique is very important.

Modelers and cheaper amps may "sound" close to better amps, but they don't respond to playing technique the same.

That being said, I own and use both a POD and a J-Station because much of my guitar tracking is done late at night and I simply can't be mic'ing amp cabs.
 
The one modeler I really like is the Vox AD120. I liked it so much I bought it, not the other way around. I like it as much as I have my 25 or more tube amps I have bought. It is an extremely versatile and good sounding amp. And the thing that sold me was the responsiveness that I have never felt in another modeler. But the AD120 is a $1200 amp, so that's not exactly cheap. In fact, it's the second most expensive amp Vox makes now, behind only the AC-30 with blue Alnico speakers.

And I also like POD's. I use them all over my music. I guess the style of music greatly affects what kind of equipment sounds good to you. The only backup that even matters is to listen to my music. I've never complained about my guitar tone sounding bad.

H2H
 
I am impressed by this thread! Good opinions w/ no hard feelings or harsh comments so far! Usually this modeling thing gets pretty heated :). I also use modeling for ideas, but I agree, when it comes to my final recordings, using one of my amps (w/ a mic of course) sounds much more natural and powerful to me. I will be happy to find a good processor when it sounds as good as my amp, and I think that if the technology matures, we may be there someday....
 
IMO, there is a far greater difference between cheap and expensive amps than there is between cheap and expensive guitars.

I'd take a Bad Cat and a Mexi-strat any day over a Don Grosh Bent Top Custom and a Line6 Spider.

As for modelers, they certainly are usefel in many applications, but a guitar tone just is never quite right until you're moving cardboard.

A
 
Aaron Cheney said:
IMO, there is a far greater difference between cheap and expensive amps than there is between cheap and expensive guitars.

A
Click to expand...
That's definitely one of the hardest lessons to learn when you start playing guitar, everyone wants to get the best guitar possible because it looks and feels cool, but they dont realize that it doesnt change the final sound anywhere near as much as a better amp would. Now one could argue that a better guitar would inspire you to play better despite a bad amp, but I think that a responsive amp really helps your playing.
 
Yeah, that's another good point: a lot of guys think that specifications will help them play better... things like lower action, or larger radius, or certain fretwire, or whatever. To a certain extent that's true, but the thing that helps me play better some nights that others is that my tone is happening. When my tone is really on I feel unstoppable no matter what guitar I'm playing.

A
 
It's like the preamp vs. mic debate...I hear a lot of people say that they'll take a cheap mic through a great pre over a great mic through a cheap pre any day.

I think a cheap-er guitar can sound great through a nice amp, while a great guitar will mostly sound like crap out of a cheapo amp.
 
It's not that a modeler sounds as good as say, a mesa boogie dual rectifier half stack, it's just is that Mesa going to make $2300 more of an impact than the modeler on what YOU are doing with it?

While the models are not dead on yet, they are getting pretty close. Close enough that most of the non-musician general public would never know the difference. Close enough that even some experienced musicians do not suspect that something was recorded with a modeler, if they are not told.

There are 2 more points that might make this an interesting debate.
1. I personally believe that most noobs can get better results with a modeler direct than they could by micing a cab. It takes hundreds of dollars in good mics and pres AND most importantly a pretty good amount of experience before a noob can get a nicer recorded tone than they could get with a modeler.
2.This has already been brought up, but you can have a palette of amps and cabs at your disposal to find the right sound.

I am not by any means saying that a modeler is better than a nice amp mic'ed with a good mic, but I am saying that I think they CAN yield better results than the average home recorder can get with his $500 amp.

Amra
 
I've heard some pretty decent guitar/amp tones on recordings that were done with modelers. Live is a different issue. I go to a jam where I've heard all the digital and modeling stuff... My vintage Marshall smokes them all.(probably cost about the same...or less) I go straight in with a simple boost pedal. RESPONSIVNESS is the key here.
Yeah, it's got a great tone, but the dynamics and response are amazing. I control it all with my hands, don't even need to touch the vol. knobs most of the time. From twang to full balls out. No effects needed. I learned a long time ago that you don't need a smorgasbord of guitar sounds to be good.
 
ZZZZzzzzzzz.......



Sorry, I fell asleep.

I am going back to bed until I can save enough money for a Dumble and then can piss on everyone single person on the BBS unless they do the same.
 
amra said:
It takes hundreds of dollars in good mics and pres AND most importantly a pretty good amount of experience before a noob can get a nicer recorded tone than they could get with a modeler.
Amra
Click to expand...

I have to seriously disagree. Settings are much more complicated on most modelers, and it takes far more tweaking. Unless you are using the patches already on there, it's hard to set. Also, a cheaper mic pre and an sm57 or a cheap LDC gives great tone (that's what I do) and it has not cost me hundreds of dollars, and I also use the mics and pres for other applications as well (vocals and such).
 
amra said:
I am not by any means saying that a modeler is better than a nice amp mic'ed with a good mic, but I am saying that I think they CAN yield better results than the average home recorder can get with his $500 amp.

Amra
Click to expand...

i disagree completely. for one, it depends on what kind of sound you want. i got an amazing overdrive tone out of my fender 79 princeton by using a tubescreamer and a blues driver. i think it would have taken me a long time to get a sound even close to that out of an amp modeller. i mic'ed it with a LD condenser in front and a 57 in the open back. its a thicker, ballsier sound than i ever expected out of a 1x10 (12watt) combo.

granted my two electric amps each run more than any of the modellers but i think they give a tone that can't be matched digitally. and just to readress the point. a real amp will give you response. by using the blues driver as a level boost i can play softly through my princeton and get a clean sound. now, just by playing harder i can push the tubes into overdrive. thats something that no modeller will respond to.

so far the only modeller i've heard that comes close to the real thing is Amplitube. Its the only modeller i've heard that can be mistaken for a real amp.
 
No effects needed. I learned a long time ago that you don't need a smorgasbord of guitar sounds to be good
Click to expand...

Now that is something I can definitely agree with. I think the most important thing that you need to get a good sound is an ear for tone. I have a friend that can get on anybodies gear, tweak it and find an amazing tone. He has pulled tones out of my amps, that I have never been able to replicate, and I have been told by alot of people over the years that I have a good ear for tone! lol

I think that the biggest problem the majority of the guitar players out there have, is that they don't know how to get the best tone out of the equipment they HAVE.
 
Hey, im fairly new to the game but not like uber noob. Anyway, i find with enough tiem put in, you can get a good sound from a pedal. I am struggling to get a good, proffesional sounding...sound from my fender roc-pro 1000. I try with a 57 and it just doesnt give enough sustain. So i find using the preset patch titled "US HARD" on my pedal gives a great sound, more like a guitar sound on a CD. The fender is great live but it is just too punch for the kind of music i like to record. It sounds very amature.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top