Everyone: what do YOU use Cakewalk/Sonar to do??

K

keyboard30

New member
Hi everybody welcome to my first post on the bulletin boards at homerecording.com

(drum rolllll...........)

ok, ok, keep the boos and hisses to a minimum....

I've joined several different forums that are very specialized and am looking for, well, a place to hang out with people who use cakewalk & a keyboard the way I do.

I just can't seem to find anyone who does use them the way I do...

Here's what I do, I have been playing pianos/keyboards for 30 years, but just got into using Cakewalk for recording myself playing my new Yamaha keyboard.

I'm multi-track recording, right now I can only save in midi files, but I have an audio interface on the way (I just ordered a Yamaha UW500 from zzsounds) so I'll be able to actually make MP3's, etc., without having to mix-down from midi (I have yet to find a software synth that sounds as good as my keyboard.)

Perhaps you are starting to see my problem.

I'm not a "midi programmer" so I don't belong in sequencing forums (with those who "enter" notes as if it were data entry rather than music)

...although I am beginning to learn XG parameters and effects to punch my recordings up to the best they can be.

I don't use soft synths nor do I want to (so I offend the majority of people in midi forums) My keyboard has 760 voices (including the 480 XG set) and when I expand I hope to go for a tone generator, probably the Proteus 2000 or 2500.

So, I like "real" or "rack" gear.

And I hardly EVER use the "auto-accompany" on my keyboard, the loops are boring, monotonous, etc. so I offended everyone on the PSR songs forum because that's all they do, and THEY had the nerve to tell me I couldn't PLAY my instrument, that anyone who sequenced wasn't "really playing."

I have mixed down a few of my creations to MP3 via soft synth & recorded vocals FOR FUN (I can carry a tune in a bucket, but that's it.....)

This is just a hobby for me but an important one, as I am "recovering" from cancer (the cancer is gone but the treatments left me rather disabled) and my music is my refuge, the only place I can get away from the pain......so I take it just as seriously and work very hard getting my tracks recorded & mixed just right, as if I were younger and looking forward to maybe a recording career......

BTW I am 39 years old.

HELP!

Are there friends here? I sure hope so. I just want to hang out with music lovers, share music files & learn something & help anybody who's just starting out if I can.

Thanks for reading,

keyboard30
 
Are there friends here? I sure hope so. I just want to hang out with music lovers, share music files & learn something & help anybody who's just starting out if I can.
Click to expand...

You got one right here man!
WELCOME!!! :)
 
I'm here...

On the right line, next to you...

Wellcome to the virtual familly of home recording...

...so what do you want to do with Cakewalk/SONAR anyway ? :D
 
Ummmm......... Welcome Home:)

Are there friends here?? I consider some of these knuckleheads close friends, even if we havent met. I like these guys better than my real friends.

I am a pro violinist, also somewhat disabled due to Fibromyalgia. I can still play a mean fiddle, but I dont go out much. This board is a lifesaver for people with Physical problems.

Stick around new friend, you will never leave. Be careful of the Dragon Cave; horrible wicked people hang out in there and talk about Sex and naughty stuff. At least that's what I heard:rolleyes:

Welcome, Dave:cool:
 
welcome

just wanted to say that this is a great forumn and you will be welcome here to hang out anytime, i am new to cakewalk/sonar myself and these guys on here realy know there stuff and will have you up and running in no time flat doing it the way you like to. as i said welcome and you have a friend here maybe we can do some colaberating on music somtime just drop me an email i to use a keyboard and sonar, plus i play guitar but i aint much of a singer. lol i hope you find what you want here. tim pate
 
DavidK said:

Stick around new friend, you will never leave. Be careful of the Dragon Cave; horrible wicked people hang out in there and talk about Sex and naughty stuff. At least that's what I heard:rolleyes:

Welcome, Dave:cool:
Click to expand...
I heard that. Now you'll be punished. Now go fetch a lawn chair and some duct tape.:D
Welcome. I use Cakewalk basicly as an audio editor only. No sequencing. All mixing, while automated somewhat in Cakewalk, is done on an analog console. Oh, and watch out for this DavidK guy, I have it on good authority that he's a communist.:eek:
 
G'Day!

Greetings from Australia.....

I am a musical jack of all trades - I too much prefer to play than sequence - I seem to go insane staring at that little piano roll window...... and nothing ever seems to sound human - even with groove or random quantization!

My friends and I typically record guitars and bass direct, add whatever effects or sound stage they need to be in and then sit down to write some accompanying parts. This is where I find soft-synths quite useful, for a few $$ you can get really awesome sounding patches for use in these synths which sound MUCH better than say the strings patch on my Korg XD-R.

The other soft-synth that I quite like in Sonar 2.0 is Cyclone - in your situation you could load up Cyclone and assign it to say the bottom octave on your keyboard. Then stick some sound samples into the Cyclone banks - a drum loop on C, a bass groove on C#, a snare roll on D etc.,etc., etc.. Throwing these into traditional left hand bass lines in piano parts can quickly and easily widen your sonic landscape........ (And it doesn't have to be cheesy 21st century electronica either - a wind sample _tastefully_ done under a sonata could work, a fire engine bell under the chorus of a fast paced song could also work........)

I guess the other advantage I find with softsynths is that my wife is more likely to divorce me when I come home with a rack device under my arm whereas a CD hides nicely in my jacket........

Anyway - if you really want to hear what I am doing in Cakewalk, check out www.geocities.com/lunatic_delusion and remember to keep your tongue firmly planted in your cheek!

Have Fun,

Q.
 
Ok, this is the kind of "problem" I was talking about

I DO NOT,

repeat,

Do NOT work in the PIANO ROLL VIEW and enter notes like data.

I PLAY my keyboard.

I Play my keyboard.

I used Cakewalk to record myself, playing my keyboard.

I never, ever use quantize. Makes things sound too mechanical. I am careful about the timing of the drum track, but I never use the quantize command ever. EVER.

I record to multiple tracks, ie melody line, backup line, bass, guitar rhythm and/or solo, whatever the song I am recording has.

I am very well aware that there are many non-muscians who "enter" notes into a piano roll view or something similar in other programs, but I have NEVER even opened my piano roll view.

It is just like if I had a guitar and I recorded one track with that;
a banjo to the second track; a bass to thethird and an Alesis drum machine to the next, its the same thing I do except;

I use the voices of my keyboard (a top of the line $1500 Yamaha)
(well, middle of the line as there are more expensive ones, but.) it has 760 voices, more than a full orchestra, almost 50 guitars, some sound very real and others have to be tweaked with effects like reverb, chorus, amp sim etc. to sound realistic.

When I record a violin solo (with my keyboard, picture it please, I am sitting on a piano bench with both hands firmly on the keys) I go back and alter the attack & release in XG commands as part of my mixing to make the violin sound more realistic. That is part of all the stuff that goes one AFTER I've recorded myself PLAYING all the different parts of the song.

I only have one muti timbral soft synth in my Cakewalk HS 2002, it is the Roland Virtual Sound Canvas, and it doesn't sound as good as my keyboard, period. It only has 256 voices, where my keyboard has 760 -- and my keyboard's voice are MUCH better.

I've made 1 mp3, I don't sing well but my backing track is completely played by me -- it has a piano track, a cello track, a strings section track, a violin track, a distortion guitar track and of course a drum track.

Perhaps if you download it (its quick as I made a mono version for quick download usually 6-7 minutes on a 56K modem) you will understand that I do indeed PLAY.

Technically because cakewalk calls recording midi data in this way "sequencing" I am stuck with a definition which Leads people to the wrong conclusions.

As I said, when my audio interface gets here there won't be any more midi files.

See, I've already upset someone who likes soft synths, and already got the regular comment about how "sequencing is not playing."

Adversely, those who enter notes like data, tell me that I am not sequencing, that playing like I do "live" is incorrect, causes timing mistakes (which I believe makes the music more realistic, cause no one has perfect timing BUT a computer.....)

So I guess I have no where eh?

here's my one MP3, be warned I'm no singer this was for fun. Its the first new song I've liked since 1995...."A Thousand Miles" by Vanessa Carlton".

BTW I played this at the speed you hear it. I made one mistake in the piano track and didn't even correct it it was so small.

PLAYED. allright?

download it;



I have nothing against those who do things another way (except I cannot stand those who DO enter notes in a program like Cakewalk in the piano roll view, the files are terrible sounding, awful! Like played by machines. I have one example of this that I may share with you people if I get enough positive reaction.

Thank those of you who welcomed me. And for the person who says I'm not playing YOUR DEAD WRONG.....maybe I explained better this time.

Without an audio interface, the only way to save my recording in Cakewalk is to a midi file, right now. Soon I'll have my interface and my recordings will be straight audio, although I will probably always have a midi version for those who don't want to wait the 6-15 mintues that it takes to download most MP3s.

I also play guitar and when I get a descent mic (I have two but the are not pro mics) I will probably add some of that to my recordings.

I don't mean to offend those who use soft synths, I've just got a great keyboard with great sounds, that's all. For those who like soft synths, that's great have at it. Personal preference. I have used them -- and mixed them with some of my keyboard sounds recorded with an open mic on the room, not the best way to hear the quality but it does tend to punch it up a bit. Allthough my "A Thousand Miles"MP3 is almost completely soft synth with the exception of the distortion guitar, which in the soft synth I have didn't cut it....

I guess I'll have to either A) mixdown some of my files into MP3s in the soft synth & post them here so you will believe my files aren't that "inputted garbage" or just wait till I have my audio interface so that you can appreciate how beautiful sounding my keyboard is.

No, my hubby didn't like the money I spent but it does keept me out of his hair, so he has warmed up to the idea.

Hopefully I will meet people who record songs from their keyboards here. Playing songs, I mean......

keyboard30 (I picked that cause I've played them over 30 years.)
 
Last edited:
Keyboard30 - I think we have got a little confused.......

I am _agreeing_ with you.

As I said, "I too much prefer to play [with my hands] than sequence [with the piano roll view]". To spell this out -

Playing yourself with fingers on guitar, keyboard or other instrument = GOOD.

Mucking about with Piano Roll View = BAD

QUANTIZE = VERY, VERY BAD
-----------------------------------------------------------------
My point with soft-synths is this -

If you record your MIDI part playing your real keyboard with your real hands =>

Then you can either use your new A/D converter to record your keyboard's output OR,

Direct the recorded output to a soft-synth with a good sounding sample attached. This allows you to use sound patches that sound _better_ than your existing keyboard sounds, while still retaining the exact original feel of keyboard part.

My Korg keyboard's sound sux on string parts, but my keyboard playing does not. Using a soft-synth allows me to keep the feel of my part and use a sound that is much better than my synth. (This is the part where you tell me not to be so damn cheap and buy a decent keyboard.......)

Whether or not you use them - I don't care, so don't worry about having offended or upset me ;) I was just trying to show you that there are other uses for these things than just the "tweet" and "bop" noises.

Just tryin' to be friendly and have a chat - if you would prefer, we could talk about the finer points of mixolydian scale juxtaposition over minor melodic left hand scale patterns.............

And BTW - if anyone ever tells you that playing the instrument yourself is incorrect, you know you are not talking to someone with much of a clue about music.
 
P.S. - Yes - I like your song and it is certainly very evident that you are playing it yourself. There is a feel and subtle movement that you can't get with a programmed PC player.

Your timing does seem to slip though - maybe if you quantized it back...... (ONLY JOKING - DON'T HIT ME!! :) )

Truly though - what was your recording process for this song?

Did you do the piano track, add the other instruments and then come back and play the drum part on another track, ie. hitting individual keys for the snare and kick drum etc.?

I always debate with myself with songs like this whether or not to build the drum track first and then play everything off it live.

Apologies in advance for insulting your sensibilities!

Ciao,

Q.
 
-I have CHS2002 also.
In case you didn't know, EMu/Creative soundcards can run soundfonts with no lag, and an SBLive 5.1 card only costs about $32 + shipping online for the OEM version. - There are lots of free soundfonts available on the web of all qualities--synths and samples of real instruments. There are some general MIDI-type banks smaller than 1 meg, and others bigger than 100 megs. There are soundfonts of single pianos that are larger than 50 megs.
One of the biggest free download listings:
http://www.thesoundsite.net/
 
From reading these posts I think there may be a bit of a difference of opinion as to what sequencing actually is. I play my keyboard parts onto a midi track, without using piano roll or any form of data entry besides playing in real time, but I've always thought that WAS sequencing. I later convert the part to audio, after revisions and arrangement tweeks. I quantize certain parts if I feel they might sit better in the mix with some timing improvement. I never quantize to 100%. I do the same with drum parts, string parts, or whatever. I do it this way because my keyboard playing leaves a bit to be desired. Sometimes it will take me quite a few few passes to get a complicated part right, and even then I'll have to go back and punch in a few spots. My primary instruments are electric/upright bass, and guitar, so of course I'll record those as audio tracks. One of the things I love about sequencing is the ability to edit parts. I enjoy shaping parts to create detailed arrangements that fit together perfectly. As I say, to me this is sequencing. I started out with an MMT8 and various drum machines which offered no piano roll, and only limited data entry options other than recording the part as played by hand. Those early machines were called sequencers, so I've always regarded playing anything in real time onto a midi recording device to be sequencing. Seems either the concept has changed, or I've misread some of these posts.
 
nice playing

very good live playing on that song keyboard30. i can definately tell you can play. and i hope you dont get offended but opinions rather it be on the way we record or the equipment we use are like asses we all have one. personally i realy like the results you gott playing the song live it sounds good. myself i just have a yamaha psr280, its not realy that great but some of the sounds like the piano are sampled from there higher end keyboards and they sound good so i play them live also. i dont even have a midi cable and i wouldnt know how to use it if i did. all those sequencers would just be to much. i have them all like dreamstaion tassman and a bunch more but i dont know how to use them. and to be honest with you i dont care to know how. so with that said like i said before you are very welcome here and you will have many friends here but just remember opinions run wild here and everyone has one rather they agree or not. do some more music id like to hear some more and ill try and post some of my music on sounclick.com so you can here some of my keyboard stuff.
 
I use Sonar 1.3 something or other.
Well, lemme be honest, I try to use Sonar.
I only try to use it when I'm feeling good, mentally and physically. When I find myself smiling and my cheeks hurt. When I get some wild hair tangled in a dark orifice. When I feel creative and feel the need to try to record something on Sonar again.

Most of the time I record because I feel good and have this strange idea that when I record when I feel good the recording will reflect my feelings and mood.
After a year, this hasn't been the case, yet.

Usually I record so I can delve into a mood much less gleefull. I'm used to depression and frustration and not giving a rats rump about too very much. So when I catch myself in a feel good mood, I head to the computer and flip on Sonar.

The stuff I have recorded on Sonar sounds like someone who is ill and so backwoods that they can't even turn on the computer when they are by themselves. But I keep getting shed of that good feeling, thanks to Sonar.

I've even written a song thanking Sonar. It's called, 'Gimme that Old Time Frustration'. I've tried to record it a few times but always seem to screw up something in it.

Even now, I'm chuckling at my demise.
Guess it's time to do a bit of recording.
 
Qwerty wrote:

Mucking about with Piano Roll View = BAD
Click to expand...

Then me very BAD:D :D :D Gimme a break will ya? I play bass guitar, rythm geetar and lead guitar, a bit of keyboard, vocals......just how many instruments can a man play? So I use the keybaord and soundfonts to give me a good acoustic drum kit...and the piano roll view to "adjust" the timing/add drums etc.

DAvidK wrote:
I consider some of these knuckleheads close friends
Click to expand...
Thats the nicest thing anyone has written about me;)
 
...The questions are :
  1. Where's the option to "quantize" someone's attitude in SONAR ?
  2. Piano Roll View ? Should I use it to see inside someone's head ? (...women.)
  3. If so, can I just "draw a note" , or should I "play manually" to entering data into "it"?
    [/list=1]

    Guess you know what's my project here...

    :D :D :D :D :D :D
 
Paul881 said:
Qwerty wrote:



Then me very BAD:D :D :D Gimme a break will ya? I play bass guitar, rythm geetar and lead guitar, a bit of keyboard, vocals......just how many instruments can a man play? So I use the keybaord and soundfonts to give me a good acoustic drum kit...and the piano roll view to "adjust" the timing/add drums etc.
Click to expand...

I was waiting until I read all the the replies before I was going to say this very thing.

The piano roll is a gift from above for me. I do this stuff in an apartment with my mics, guitars, my Korg Triton and Sonar. As a guitarist/vocalist/writer, midi and the piano roll make good, even sometimes great drum tracks possible, especially if you have neighbors...this is after all Home Recording. I use the piano roll to create note for note "acoustic" drum parts, send them to the Korg for samples, and back into a Delta66 for audio conversion and editing. I play all my own keyboard parts (as audio) such as piano, strings, gazoos, etc., generally seeking to simulate real instruments as best as possible. If you want, my stuff is at www.nowhereradio.com/sluice/singles - check out Dry or Rhythms. I started about 6 months ago and have found the piano roll to be a valuable tool in filling that percussion void, particularly given my working conditions, and those of others.

Keyboard30, that's great that you played the parts yourself very well. I can play my parts very well too. But I can't play drums. What do you yourself do about drums when you want them? What does the composer do about ANY instrument he can't play himself (or herself)? Practice all these instruments for 10 years before he finally gets to record the idea? And...isn't it the idea that we're supposed to be recording?

Sorry to be a bummer, but I found your comments rude, prejudiced, and maybe a bit arrogant. Maybe it's just the way your words flow. If I misunderstood you, I aplogize.
 
originally posted by keyboard30

I have nothing against those who do things another way (except I cannot stand those who DO enter notes in a program like Cakewalk in the piano roll view, the files are terrible sounding, awful! Like played by machines. I have one example of this that I may share with you people if I get enough positive reaction.
Click to expand...

With the greatest respect to you, I think you should be careful coming onto a BB like this and making strong statements such as the ones above.

Actully, it is two statements. One that you can't stand those folk who enter notes in PRV, and second, that they sound awful. As both my post and SLuiCe have pointed out, how else are we musician's (and I emphasise the word "musician") going to complete a piece of music, multi-layered, in limiting circumstances and without resorting to synths, soundfonts and PRV? We are no less musicians because of it. (And incidently, drums that use natural sounding soundfonts and an unquantisized track can sound almost like the real thing. As ever, it depends on the skill of the musician.)

If you wish to use your keyboard and its own range of instruments, then thats fine by me too.

You are very welcome to this forum, it has been a great source of help to me and many others here. But realise that all forms of music are represented here, across a broad spectrum of tastes and era's, let alone the whole geographic world. So live and let live, tolerance and peace to all.
 
The main thing to remember is that this is a RECORDING site not a keyboard site.
We for the most part wear many hats,musician,engineer,songwriter,etc.
If you are doing all the chores by yourself you will need to cut corners somwhere.
Just learning the nuances of the software can be a task as evidenced by the threads in this forum.
If you consider yourself to be a great keyboardist thats fine, but please don't let that take away from the talents of the other forumites.
I would suggest you go to the mp3 forum and take a listen to the wide variety of talent that resides at this bbs.
Maybe you could offer your services in a collaborative project as many other forumites have.

I will agree with you the line between a musician and a technician has been blurred but music is not an exact science.

BTW A DJ IS NOT A MUSICIAN!;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top