Ethan's traps vs. Auralex

M

mgraffeo

New member
So, I'm probably going to be moving some time in the next couple of months, and hopefully relocating my bedroom studio into a space that I'll be able to do something with. One of my primary concerns is to acoustically treat the room, for mixing. I've read some of the literature from RealTraps, and from Auralex, and I'm wondering if anyone out there has any experience with one versus the other? If Ethan's DIY traps (low bass, high bass, mid/high) are about $40 each, you can build 4 low bass, 4 high bass, and 2 mid/high absorbers for $400. Or, you could go to 8th street, and pick up a Roominators Project 2 Kit, for the same money. Obviously, there's a lot less work just buying the Auralex, but after reading the info at RealTraps, etc, it seems like the DIY panel traps should control the bass better. Of course, I'm still wondering if I'm wrapped up in good salesmanship on Ethan's part.

So, since I haven't really asked a question yet, I'll just ask: any thoughts?

Thanks!

-mg
 
I got some auralex bass traps in a kit I recently ordered. I'm very new at this but I'm also going to try making some DIY traps to compare.....if I can find any 703 anywhere!

I noticed that I really liked the sound of my room when it was just studs and fiberglass insulation. Now that I have inside walls and auralex it sounds good it's just I liked the sound of the insulation better.

so there you have it, i just think fiberglass is probably a better bass trapper than foam in the end.

again, this is very uneducated and coming from very little experience. so take it for what it's worth.
 
Do yourself a favor and follow Ethans plans. I have both. My cost per trap was about 55.00 each on average. I built mine with a back so I don't have to build it to a wall and they are semi portable. They work great. I think I will be building these for the next year or so to get the quantity I want.

Check your local roofing supply for 703 and 705.

Kirk

PS. Ethan isn't a slick salesman. They all work for Auralex.
 
nwsoundman,

have you had any experience with auralex-treated rooms? I don't have much doubt that Ethan's traps are good stuff. I haven't really heard any rooms treated with either in a before/after scenario.

Also, what was the mod you made to Ethan's DIY traps to make them portable?

Thanks!
 
mg,
have you read any material on Ethan or John's sites? If you have, then I don't get it, what more is there to say?:D

I started out with Auralex foam, it seemed cool!! But basically all it did was kill the mids and highs. I did have all 4 corners with the
lenr'ds. I thought I was doing good. But wait, I recorded some stuff and thought cool. I compared it (before and after the foam), and said to myself "SELF"--which do I like better? I listened and listened to the recorded tracks, sure you may say but tracking on ifferent days, mikes, temperature can create various playback sonic characters."It will sound differnt" But after a day or two, listening to the tracks in my studio, in the car, inthe house stereo, I started noticing generally the tracks( with foam) sounded muddy... eck!
Then I thought to myself "SELF" what the heck is doing that?
Then I started reading around, found Ethan's site, John's site and others, and realized the mids and highs seemed more tamed-or not so sloppy, but the low end was mush.

Why? because the low end is still doing whatever is does without treatment. I read some more, but finally got it through my nagen
(head) that the bass frequencies need treatment, but foam willnot do it.

Sorry this is soooo loooong, I'm just trying to help you not make the mistake(money & time) I did by telling you this...

FOAM WILL NOT TREAT THE BASS FREQUENCIES, YOU WILL RECORD AND MONITOR MUDD. DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND BUY OR BUILD THE BASS TRAPS BY ETHAN AND JOHNS DESIGN.

Heck its free, with all the help in this forum to decifer what the best approach is.

I've made a few low end traps and a few mid absorbers, and ripped all the foam out. Its like night and day. Well close.

I still need a few diffusors and maybe another low bass trap. But I'm not sweating it now, I'll take it slow and plan for the best esthetically when extra money comes in. I'm not too worried now, because I can get back to tunage.

Just take it slow, and you may make mistakes, but its not a pro studio right?

good luck. sorry for the ranting.

T
 
Tonio,

Thanks! That's exactly the sort of testimony I was hoping to hear. No apologies necessary for the rant. What are you using for diffusors?

Has anyone had any good experiences with Auralex (aside from Bruce Richardson at ProRec, who blew sunshine up their ass something fierce)?

-mg
 
Oh yeah, as for "have you read Ethan's site?", yes, I have. several times. Please forgive me if I'm skeptical of someone who is trying to sell me something. No knock on Ethan (he obviously knows his sh*t), but I like to consult multiple sources prior to taking a salesman's word.

Thanks again!

-mg
 
in Ethans defense there are instructions on how to build the product that he sells.... he doesn't make any money if you just build it yourself.....so either build yourself oneand see if you like it and either then buy (from ethan) or build more to your needs.. I don't personally know ethan but he has been very helpful to me time and time again. I personally feel that depending on your needs a combination of the two (ethan's traps and foam) can be quite musical. (not to mention the foam just looks like the pro studio that everyone that has never been to a pro studio thinks it look like ;) )
 
My current room is basically an auralex treated room:
lg-89718.jpg


It doesn't sound bad. Not overly bass-y. Highs are attenuated well. This is of course, an ABSORBED room; little to no diffusion. That means no natural reverb, so if a piece requires that (reverb), it has to be carefully added after the fact.

Its not a professional studio by ANY means, but its served me well so far. Now, you can't blast a guitar amp in here, or even attempt to play drums, but since I don't play either one, its never been a problem for me.

Knowing what I know now though, I think I would have gone about it a little differently.
I doubt I'll find a use for all this auralex in the new studio though; maybe some in the vocal booth, or I could line the walls of the mechanical closet.

Oh, I forgot to add: For 703, rockwool and the like, look in the Yellow Pages under "Insulation Suppliers".
You'll never find this stuff at Home Depot or Lowes.
 
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I have both, I have both

I said I have both. That is Both foam and Ethans low bass and high bass traps. Was I not clear about that?

My personal experience,

Foam only room sounded like ass. Only the highend was being affected well maybe a bit of the midrange too. I had LERND in all corners floor to ceiling 2' foam covering approx. 75% frontwall, 25% ceiling, 35% side walls, and about 50% rear wall. I followed the Auralex acoustic eng. advice to the T. I also added most of a box of the little 2" wedgies to create nicer patterns with the foam.

Room with Ethans traps in all verticle corners with the LERND still where they were already. A Real trap high bass and low bass with LERND in between them makes a hell of a full range trap. It looks great too. I now have the same foam on front wall, slightly less on the side walls, and only about 25 % on the rear wall.

I can tell you that my room IS much better now. I( am sure the mid and highs would be better with 703 instead of foam too. I am currently making some frames to hold 703 behind my 2" foam. My low end translates way better now. I almost gave up recording even overdubs at my home studio because I wasn't getting close enough to rooms I am used to. Now I am almost ready to not require doing some tracking at local studios.

Also I don't see much Auralex in pro studios control rooms. So to look pro and sound pro get some real acoustical treatment whether it is Ethans stuff or Johns stuff, they both have different approaches to getting a great room.

I wonder if you will still get the foam and learn the hard way?

Kirk
 
Ouch. I don't understand why I've provoked this reaction.

I was skeptical of the claims of Ethan's DIY stuff being in a different league from the Auralex stuff. Not skeptical of your testimony, which I really respect and appreciate.

I did misunderstand your original post. My bad. Please understand that it was because of your first reply and Tonio's testimony that I was leaning heavily towards heading out to Home Depot in the near future, and picking up some supplies to build a few traps.

Sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way, Kirk. No offense meant.

I did have one other question, if you're still willing to answer:

what prompted you to leave the LENRD's up? Was it just that they are a nuisance to take down, was it the look, or something else?

-mg
 
There I go again, not expressing myself well. Please allow me one more shot.

My expressed skepticism was not towards any post. My skepticism was from when I read the DIY plans, and the info at the RealTraps site. It sounded pretty technically reasonable, and certainly sounded like this was the way to go. However, I like to verify that reality matches theory, through experience. Since I don't have the money to get both experiences, I thought I'd see if people's experiences matched the theory.

Sorry for the mix-up. Hope I haven't pissed anyone off.

-mg
 
My bad. I was in a bad mood this morning. Not very typical behavior from me. I apologize.

The reason I kept the LERND in the corners was for looks. I know Ethan likes to put the traps tighter in the corner, almost touching. Also one of my corners in the rear won't allow me to mount the wood traps so there wouldn't be a 10' gap between them. Hard to explain. The foam filled the gap in that corner so I kept things symetrical.

The back of the traps is 3/4' particle board. I also built stands for them.

Once again sorry for the rude response.

Kirk
 
MG,

> I was skeptical of the claims of Ethan's DIY stuff being in a different league from the Auralex stuff. <

And well you should be. There's an awful lot of nonense floating around posing as fact, and not just in audio circles. (Don't get me started...)

The proof is in the numbers. Though I have no data for the DIY traps, the concept is similar to RealTraps which I have tested. The low-bass trap peaks at around 90 Hz. and spans a range of about an octave. A huge corner foam trap is useful - and I mean only useful, not particlarly effective - down to maybe 125 Hz.

But there's an even bigger problem, and that is the way foam corner materials are tested for absorption. Rather than explain it all again here, I refer you to the sidebar "The numbers game" in my Acoustics FAQ:

www.recording.org/users/acoustics

I'll give away the ending first - you'd be lucky to realize even 2/3 of the absorption claimed for a typical foam corner absorber.

--Ethan
 
I would love to get Ethan's bass traps at Real Traps. I have no interest in building my own. But why are the things so darn expensive? Wood, fiberglass, and material. Over 400.00 bucks with shipping, for one! What is driving these things to such a high price? I'm not trying to be a wise ass here either. I'm sure, very sure that they work well. I can't help consider that for the product your actually getting, the price is steep. Maybe it's just because I'm so short on cash is what's making me question why everything, and I do me everything seems like a fortune right now. I'm sure I'll hear about labor costs and r&d costs, etc for these traps. But, as a potential customer, I'll tell you that I'd spend without hesitation if the 2x4 traps were more like 150.00 each. But at close to 400 before shipping? No can do.

Dan
 
Dan,

> why are the things so darn expensive? ... I'd spend without hesitation if the 2x4 traps were more like 150.00 each <

That's a great question, and not only do I have a good answer for you, I also have an offer you won't be able to refuse. First the answer.

RealTraps cost $400-450 because the materials are very expensive in the small quantities we buy, and also because they are very labor intensive to build. Add to that $4,000 per month for ads in three magazines, plus rent for a 2,500 square foot factory, gas, and electricity. Bass traps is a very specialized market - if we could sell 2,000 units per month you can be sure the price would drop dramatically!

More to the point is why does a four-foot foam corner absorber cost $50-100? The raw material costs pennies, and there is no labor other than stuffing them into a shipping box. Speaking of labor and shipping boxes, you wouldn't believe how much effort is required just to prepare an order of eight RealTraps for shipping. Have you ever crated a refridgerator? A box of RealTraps is just like that, except it's even bigger and heavier! Heck, the boxes alone cost us $45, and each holds only four traps. So for a typical order of eight traps we paid $90 for boxes which we don't charge extra for.

Now for the offer you can't refuse: This Monday we are announcing our new MiniTraps product. These are real membrane bass traps that are nearly as effective as our large wood panel traps, but they cost about 1/3 as much. In fact, at all but the very lowest frequencies they are even more effective than our large traps. They are also smaller and lighter, so shipping is greatly reduced too. And because they're so much lighter (15 pounds each) they are very easy to install. You hang them on a nail or hook just like a picture!

If you go to www.realtraps.com on Monday you can see pictures and read all about them. There's a special reduced price in effect until the end of May, which is very close to the $150 you mentioned. (In fact, at the end of May we are raising the price of our larger traps by $100. And they'll still cost less than tube traps which are not nearly as good...)

--Ethan
 
Thanks for that reply Ethan. I saw at recording.com you mentioned your mini bass traps and nearly fell off my chair! This is a product that I'll be able to get. I'm in the process of building my garage studio and for two months have been wading through all the info about acoustic treatment. I was dead set on foam for a while, even after reading about it's inefficiencies compared to real traps. I decided that I would at least handle the bass traps with your product and augment them with some foam, if needed. When I checked out real traps I was disappointed to see them out of my price range. Foam is not cheap either though, and I figured if I'm going to spend the bucks I might as well get something that works well. And the same day I spot you posting about mini traps. Wooohoooo! So glad you've developed this product!! I think you'll see a lot of business with the mini's. At least that's what I'm hoping for you. Let us know when they are ready for shipment. I'll be checking real traps for the inclusion of this new product. Thanks for everything Ethan!

Dan
 
Dan,

> I think you'll see a lot of business with the mini's. <

Yes, this is definitely the right price point for most people and, better, MiniTraps also blow away everything else out there. They're nearly three times more absorbent at 100 Hz. than a LENRD foam corner, and more than four times more absorbent at that frequency than a $400 corner tube trap.

Stop by our site tomorrow and the new pages will be in place, with photos and specs and complete descriptions.

--Ethan
 
Ethan- How do your mini-traps compare to OC703 when you look at absorption per/$? My room is for mixing and tracking and is 17'x30'x8'. There are also 2 sets of exterior french doors that seem to let a lot of the bass out of the room. The few mixes I've done so far in there had too much bass (NS10s) so I don't think low end is a big problem for me. On the spread sheets for my room I have the highest RTC at 125 and 2K- 4K. I think the reality is my low end has a lower RTC because of the doors.

I am looking at $320 on a couple mini traps compared to about 10 DIY absorbers of 2"FRK w/ 1.5" 703 on top. I was planning on just glueing the FRK to the plain 703 and covering with fabric. Your absorbers would seem to have better specs per 2x4 panel but what is the difference between having fewer better absorbers and more, less efficient absorbers?

I could see more versatility in having more panels when it comes to fine tuning. Are 2 Mini Traps enough to make a big difference overall?

Thanks
 
Tex,

> How do your mini-traps compare to OC703 when you look at absorption per/$? <

We're now selling raw fiberglass, so the specs for OC 703 are now on the Panel Traps page at www.realtraps.com. You can then compare that to the MiniTrap specs on the MiniTraps page at our site. The MiniTraps are much more effective at low frequencies!

> The few mixes I've done so far in there had too much bass (NS10s) so I don't think low end is a big problem for me. <

One important purpose of bass traps is to make the bass response correct and uniform around the room. So they fix too much bass just as well as they fix too little bass.

> I am looking at $320 on a couple mini traps compared to about 10 DIY absorbers of 2"FRK w/ 1.5" 703 on top. <

MiniTraps make sense when you want something that's ready to go, looks nice, and is easy to install. Raw fiberglass makes sense if you're short on cash and don't mind doing all the work yourself. I doubt only two MiniTraps will be enough for any room. At the bare minimum you'd need at least four, with one in each corner. Six to ten is probably more like it to properly treat the room.

> Your absorbers would seem to have better specs per 2x4 panel but what is the difference between having fewer better absorbers and more, less efficient absorbers? <

The better specs of the MiniTraps means they'll work down to a lower frequency.

--Ethan
 
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