EQing prior to firepod

shred_head

shred_head

New member
Hello,
I'm laying down tracks with my band,
Drums, Guitar, Bass, Vox
I'm planning on getting a mixer for some eq prior to the signal getting into Cubase (through my firepod)
I really don't want to do little to any eq within cubase. Some may call me dumb for those beliefs, and some have, so spare me the comment.

Anyways, I was thinking, to set up my little studio, If I could get...say a mixer with direct outs on every channel, then I could EQ the signal on the board, and send it to the firepod already EQ'd.
I was thinking an Allen & Heath Board, but most of the Send/Returns take a TRS plug, not individual plugs for send and return. I've heard that if you take a normal 1/4" plug and plug it in half-way-ish, I can use it just as a send, and go right to the firepod......via 1/4" to XLR cable

Is this all right? Did I understand right? Would I actually push the connection in all the way to accomplish this? would I need a TRS plug instead of the normal 1/4"?

or is there some way I can manage this all that I am not aware of?
say with some parametric or graphic eq being fed by a bus OUT with say all drums, one all cymbals....one for guitar, one for vocals.....etc etc
 
there is a TRS send-return on the back of the firepod for inputs 2-8. If you plug something in to one and two in the back, I think it might not take an input from the front inputs one and two. I'm unclear as to why this is... the wording in the manual is unclear. The labelling on the back is misleading, IMO.

So maybe you can send 2-6 to a board for eq.

I would just EQ after recording, though....
 
I think you may want to do some D/A conversion from cubase and buss out each channel to an analog board. So then you could hardware eq and still be able to start from scratch if you wanted. I am not please with cubase sx's eq's either. I usually use sony or waves plugins.

The bad thing about equing before your recorder, is that you can never go back without tracking all over again.

Don't get me wrong there are uses for eq'ing before a recorder but that usually only applies to high end pre amps with color. And never any drastic changes in Frequency.
 
shred_head said:
I was thinking an Allen & Heath Board, but most of the Send/Returns take a TRS plug, not individual plugs for send and return. I've heard that if you take a normal 1/4" plug and plug it in half-way-ish, I can use it just as a send, and go right to the firepod......via 1/4" to XLR cable

Is this all right? Did I understand right? Would I actually push the connection in all the way to accomplish this? would I need a TRS plug instead of the normal 1/4"?
Click to expand...
Yeah, that is a standard trick for using insert jacks as virtual direct outs instead. What you gotta do is push the plug in to the first click and no further. This will tap the signal from the channel strip without breaking the signal path down the rest of the strip itself. And, yes, you can use a standard TS plug if you wish. You just gotta make sure that your TS-to-XLR adapter on the other end is pinned right.

Where this differs from using direct outs, though, is that insert jacks typically are wired into the channel strip at different locations within the strip path than direct outs are. You might want to check the manual of your A&H to make sure that you are tapping the signal where you want to (pre/post EQ, pre/post sends, etc.)
shred_head said:
or is there some way I can manage this all that I am not aware of?
say with some parametric or graphic eq being fed by a bus OUT with say all drums, one all cymbals....one for guitar, one for vocals.....etc etc
Click to expand...
There's a dozen different ways you can attack this issue; it all really kinda depends upon your budget in money and physical space for the mixer.

For example, if you have a mixer with 8 mix out busses, you can just run those right to your firepod and then not even have to worry about the above trick wiring. You just use your mixer to it's full potential and the comtrolling interface for the firepod and chain all EQ through the mixer normally.

Or another option would be if you had a mixer with enough aux busses for you needs, then you could use those combined with the one-click trick to assign as processed submizes to you firepod like you describe.

Or you could use all direct outs if your mixer is short on busses but long on directs (like the Mackie 1604, for example), chaining the processing boxes and the interface via patch bay (this is how I do it.)

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Or you could use all direct outs if your mixer is short on busses but long on directs (like the Mackie 1604, for example), chaining the processing boxes and the interface via patch bay (this is how I do it.)

G.
Click to expand...

can you go a little more in depth into this configuration, and as well the benefits of it? you say chaining the processing boxes, and interface, with a patch bay.....I know what a patch bay is somewhat, but what are you calling the processing boxes, and the interface




basically my budget is I want to be able to do all of this, eq my sounds with the least amount of digital tampering as possible...even though I know it will be necessary, around 1500ish, I have 1 firepod...all mics that I would need, possibly will get another firepod
 
shred_head said:
can you go a little more in depth into this configuration, and as well the benefits of it? you say chaining the processing boxes, and interface, with a patch bay.....I know what a patch bay is somewhat, but what are you calling the processing boxes, and the interface
Click to expand...
Processing boxes = whatever analog EQ, compression, reverb you may have now and in the future.

interface = Firepod.

The most flexibly designed studios are designed not around a mixer, not around an interface like a firebox, but around a patchbay. It also avoids always having to climb under desks or behind racks to constantly switch cables in and out.

An entire book chapter can be written (and has often been) on different ways to wire up patch bays, I won't go into detail here. But just think of it this way; you can use the patch bay as the central switching station for all your analog gear, wiring together your mixer channels, EQs, and recording input channels however you want.

G.
 
TragikRemix said:
why cant you just friggin eq later!

you can always set up the hardware eq with your firepod..
Click to expand...

So from what I understand....I'd be able to record the tracks to my computer, then I can OUT the signal through cubase back out to my Firepod?
then I would be able to connect an EQ, through the TRS balanced Line outs...? If this is true....do these Line outs, say going to the EQ, need to be routed back to the firepod? or how would I recapture the EQ'd signal....These lineouts would come back into the computer since they are send/returns, ....


but what then?
I would have to create a bus in Cubase to come in off of the Line Out Returns?


do I have all of this right?

thanks
 
yeah they'd come back to the comp. probably thru another input unless you have some other plan.

this is where a patchbay might be useful to you, but there are other methods of doing it , for sure.

sure, a bus would be good.

way better than eq'ing while tracking.. thats a silly idea, cause then you can't go back at all.
 
in LE, you can just EQ "in the box." Click on the EQ doodad on the left there for each track, and go for it.

Educate yourself about how parametric EQ works (if necessary). Less is more. Another thread Iwas reading tonight advised mixing without compression and eq, exporting that stereo mix to a CD, and listening to it in the car, earbuds, on yer stereo, taking notes, and onlyEQing what you need.

You will probably EQ less this way, which is a good thing.
 
i agree with less processing can be better.

although, i find every track can usually benefit from small doses of comp, eq and on drums, gating.
 
TragikRemix said:
yeah they'd come back to the comp. probably thru another input unless you have some other plan.

this is where a patchbay might be useful to you, but there are other methods of doing it , for sure.

sure, a bus would be good.

way better than eq'ing while tracking.. thats a silly idea, cause then you can't go back at all.
Click to expand...


ok...your saying for me to go from the linouts, to a patch bay then to an eq...or.......hmmmm...........where would my use of the patch bay come in to play

just in my attempt of wiring everything into an eq?
 
you could use a patchbay coming back into the firepod, if you are limited on inputs.

this way, you could easily swap out a couple ins for the eq return.
 
but if the linouts are balanced...doesnt that mean it is a send/return, so if i hooked a cable going to the send/return directly to a eq that has a return send, isn't that all already done?

or is a patch bay able to do the splitting of the returning and sending to different ports, then be able to create my own sort of loop which would then end up coming back through the "RETURN" on my firepod?
 
after some reading up, I think I understand what the configuration is going to need....just uncertain of how to hook up the balanced line outs on the firepod to say, a patch bay then EQ then have it get back to my computer to record it with the EQing
 
shred_head said:
after some reading up, I think I understand what the configuration is going to need....just uncertain of how to hook up the balanced line outs on the firepod to say, a patch bay then EQ then have it get back to my computer to record it with the EQing
Click to expand...
First of all, with the converters in a Firepod, you might not want to switch back and forth between digital and analog too many times, you can get a build up of average-sounding converter artifacting that could make you question whether that analog EQ is actually worth it that much.

Second, there is a simple way to use the patch bay in a small setup like this. A $100 24x2 1U patch bay will do the trick just fine. Assign the first 8 pairs to 8 different ins and outs of your mixer as desired, and the last 8 pairs of jacks to the 8 ins and outs of the Firepod. This will leave you 8 pairs of I/O in the middle that you can use for 4 stereo or 8 mono channels of EQ, reverb, comp, tape, whatever you want in the analog domain.

Normal the patch bay to hardwire the signal path how you want (read up on patch bay normalization for more on that). But simply put, you can use the patch bay to then automatically patch any of your EQ and such how you want between any of the available ins and outs.

I have a mobile location recording rack that's set up just like this (using a MOTU 2408 instead of a Firepod) where I can build my signal chains as desired between the mixer, 2 channels of optical compression, 2 channels of digital reverb, 2 channels of EQ and 2 channels of limiting, 8 channels of ADAT, 2 channels of DAT, and 8 channels of MOTU interface to the computer.

G.
 
all I know is that when I tried to use the trs in/outs in the back to run out to a mixer and then on to a headphone splitter/amp, I got no signal, even pulling halfway out.
 
Obi-Wan zenabI said:
all I know is that when I tried to use the trs in/outs in the back to run out to a mixer and then on to a headphone splitter/amp, I got no signal, even pulling halfway out.
Click to expand...
That trick only works on mixer insert jacks (single jacks wired to accept both in and out on a single jack.)

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
First of all, with the converters in a Firepod, you might not want to switch back and forth between digital and analog too many times, you can get a build up of average-sounding converter artifacting that could make you question whether that analog EQ is actually worth it that much.

I have a mobile location recording rack that's set up just like this (using a MOTU 2408 instead of a Firepod) where I can build my signal chains as desired between the mixer, 2 channels of optical compression, 2 channels of digital reverb, 2 channels of EQ and 2 channels of limiting, 8 channels of ADAT, 2 channels of DAT, and 8 channels of MOTU interface to the computer.

G.
Click to expand...

I agree the artifacting does bother me a bit. Is there any way around destroying the originals by putting it through analog EQ's? and being able to put it through after the recording has been made..

It sounds like your configuration is somewhat set up like how I am planning mine. Is your signal path set up with the EQ before the MOTU (recording the EQ'd signal?)
 
i know you dont wanna hear negative comments......but why are you making the recording process this hard, either eq to tape or eq on mixdown, this loopty loop configuration is taking away from your real purpose, to record music
 
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