EQ question!

P

PhilLondon

New member
Sometimes there will be a vocal part I've recorded, with no compression, and it's not particularly loud. But when I play the whole track one word will literally bring down the guitar parts until that word is over. If I then sweep with a narrow band I can find the same frequency, and cut, and then it gets rid of the drop in what appears to be the volume.

So, is this in fact the vocal occupying the same frequency space as the guitar, and when cut it's freeing up that area for the guitars, or is it something else?

Maybe an obvious question but I'm just trying to work out if I've got my head round this EQ business.

Thanks.
 
Guitar and vocals occupy a lot of the same space in regard to frequency. If you are cutting 1khz on vocals, then the other things in the mix occupying 1khz will be heard over it by as much as the vocals were cut. EQ is the most specific volume control we have - instead of "bass" and treble" like most cars/radios have, this gives us full control over the audible spectrum.

However, I would first look at manually editing the volume of that word. Does your DAW let you highlight sections or break them off into small areas you can manipulate? That way, you can adjust the volume of that single word as opposed to the volume of that frequency - if you are relying on the frequency adjustment, then your entire vocal track will suffer from a lack of "x hz". You don't want that, you only want that one word to be quieter. The other words that sound fine will also have less of "x" frequency if you do it your way. That might sound unnatural
 
I know how to automate. I use Logic Pro X. Using the volume can only do so much, I need both parts to be able to live together in the same space. It's okay, I think I understand now anyway. :)
 
PhilLondon said:
I know how to automate. I use Logic Pro X. Using the volume can only do so much, I need both parts to be able to live together in the same space. It's okay, I think I understand now anyway. :)
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well, not even automate. just "highlighting" that section that bringing its volume down until its at a good level. setting up an automation track is more time consuming.
 
You said 'a vocal track, but it must actually be a voc and guitar right? Otherwise reducing the voc hot spot wouldn't be affecting the guitar.
Also it's not clear why or if this is an 'eq problem, unless you're using this eq to cut the primary freq of the exact note at that moment. Not that it resolves your 'overlapping conflict, but why did you go to eq rather than volume leveling to begin with?
 
andrushkiwt said:
well, not even automate. just "highlighting" that section that bringing its volume down until its at a good level. setting up an automation track is more time consuming.
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Perhaps you can do it like that too, but because I automate the vocals anyway I just continue with the automation. In any case, it's the same thing, and I did try that.

mixsit said:
You said 'a vocal track, but it must actually be a voc and guitar right? Otherwise reducing the voc hot spot wouldn't be affecting the guitar.
Also it's not clear why or if this is an 'eq problem, unless you're using this eq to cut the primary freq of the exact note at that moment. Not that it resolves your 'overlapping conflict, but why did you go to eq rather than volume leveling to begin with?
Click to expand...

So I have vocals, guitar, bass and drums playing. At one point when the vocal is present it will overpower everything else and appear to bring the volume of everything down. If I bring the volume of the vocal down to stop this it's now too low in the mix, so by EQing it and cutting the frequency that it shares with whatever it shares it with I can bring the volume up and it now doesn't overpower the mix. So it must be an EQ issue, right?
 
PhilLondon said:
Perhaps you can do it like that too, but because I automate the vocals anyway I just continue with the automation. In any case, it's the same thing, and I did try that.



So I have vocals, guitar, bass and drums playing. At one point when the vocal is present it will overpower everything else and appear to bring the volume of everything down. If I bring the volume of the vocal down to stop this it's now too low in the mix, so by EQing it and cutting the frequency that it shares with whatever it shares it with I can bring the volume up and it now doesn't overpower the mix. So it must be an EQ issue, right?
Click to expand...

Assuming the vocal is on its own track, adjusting the volume of that single word shouldn't be a problem for the mix. Again, if you cut the main offending frequency, you're risking losing what that frequency offers to the rest of the vocals, unless you're automating the freq of that offending note very quickly and then back up. But still, I'd spend more time on volume control. Worst case, rerecord that line.
 
If you are noticing a loud vocal pushing down the guitars, then you're doing more mix bus compression than I ever do. But yeah, any time a loud sound triggers your compressor, it will push down the softer sounds and emphasize that loud one.

I'm with andrushkiwt on this. If you've got a word or two that is too loud or too soft, the simplest and best way to deal with it is the surgical option. Do a little bit of clip-splitting, then adjust the gain on those clips. If you do that prior to compression, the compressor will be able to work more smoothly with fewer artifacts or nasty surprises. Track automation is best used to handle dynamic changes that affect the whole track, for example a guitar track that needs to be louder during part of the song.
 
No compression was being used!

I managed to just cut at 2k, and it fixed it and didn't take too much from the vocal. Yea maybe a re-record of the vocal or the 'surgical' options are things to look at.
 
The problem could also be the guitar sound. I've run into a number of people who favor a certain tone structure and accidentally make all the instruments have the same tone. That sort of thing can cause problems like that.

Compression on the vocal could have helped the vocal be less dynamic and/or thicker, therefore making it so it can be heard without having to be louder than the music.
 
PhilLondon said:
Perhaps you can do it like that too, but because I automate the vocals anyway I just continue with the automation. In any case, it's the same thing, and I did try that.



So I have vocals, guitar, bass and drums playing. At one point when the vocal is present it will overpower everything else and appear to bring the volume of everything down. If I bring the volume of the vocal down to stop this it's now too low in the mix, so by EQing it and cutting the frequency that it shares with whatever it shares it with I can bring the volume up and it now doesn't overpower the mix. So it must be an EQ issue, right?
Click to expand...
You are automating the vocal levels(?), but if you do- it becomes 'too low in the mix'?
So you're dipping that one freq- through the whole track instead?

It's also curious that it "seems to bring the volume of everything (else) down".
It ought to be able to be heard as 'the rest of the mix stays the same, and the voc is just 'loud' there.
 
mixsit said:
You are automating the vocal levels(?), but if you do- it becomes 'too low in the mix'?
So you're dipping that one freq- through the whole track instead?

It's also curious that it "seems to bring the volume of everything (else) down".
It ought to be able to be heard as 'the rest of the mix stays the same, and the voc is just 'loud' there.
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That's what I thought. If the level is being automated, but still too loud, won't a notch further down work better then? Surely, there has to be a level where it sits nicely at.
And yeah, sounds like a compressor is kicking in, though Phil says no compressor is active. Phil, is it "loud" as in a deep resonance to the vocal? Is it a note held loud and long, as in yelling/screaming? Is it doubled tracked or a single take?
 
I got one question on vocals.
If a vocal is large in mix and occupies a lot of low freq. is it ok to filter it all the way to 200_300 hz. It just souds better, and cleaner to me and leaves room for instruments to come out clean.
 
If filtering it up.that high makes it sound better, it's fine. However, it might be worthwhile to find out why they ended up that muddy.

Getting as close to the finished sound when you record is normally the best idea.
 
Saloje said:
I got one question on vocals.
If a vocal is large in mix and occupies a lot of low freq. is it ok to filter it all the way to 200_300 hz. It just souds better, and cleaner to me and leaves room for instruments to come out clean.
Click to expand...

Can you post a clip?
 
Are we listening to the same thing? The vocal is clean, and for the track just not warm enough. Maybe the things you are removing are 'good' things? The other thing is the rest of the track sounds very real and live and the vocal track just doesn't blend it because it's so dry. Have you tried matching the room ambience and seeing if the voice then sits in the mix better. It sounds like a different room is in use - that could be why you are not happy.
 
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